Video Transcript: Working with Other Churches

This is lecture 34 of the practical ministries skills course. And today we're talking about working with other churches. Our key verse from Jesus's prayer after the  last supper. John 17:21, I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one, 

as you are in me, father and I am in you, and may they be in us, so that the  world will believe you sent me. I pray that they will all be one. I don't believe this  necessarily means all one church. I don't believe that it means all one  denomination. I know that some people feel that the different that the large  number of different denominations in the world, is not something that God is  happy about. But I don't see it that way. He knew this was going to happen. He  allows us to have these differences. He would have made it crystal clear if there  was only one way that he wanted a church to be organized, or any of these  other issues, the unity that Jesus is talking about. Here is the kind of unity that  we talked about when I said you need to train your people to understand unity  as a symphony orchestra or any other kind of group. I use the analogy of the  tree with the branches going different directions, or a person walking, and the  right hand swings forward while the left hand swings back. They're doing  different things. They're different parts. They have different skills and different  abilities. Your feet are different than your hands are different from your ears and  eyes, and they're all different from your spleen, whatever that is and so but  they're all important, and they're all part of the one body. I believe that analogy  doesn't just apply to individual Christians as members of the one body. I believe  it applies to the different churches as also different local congregations, different  denominations, different ministries outside the church, all working together to be  a part of the body of Christ. So denominations and associations. My own  experience is that I grew up in a denomination, the Episcopal Church. After I  gave my life to the Lord, I attended a number of different churches of different  denominations and non denominational churches while I was in college and  when I went to seminary, many of the people there, if not most at my particular  seminary, were heading for positions in non denominational churches. It was not a denominational seminary. They called themselves trans denominational  because they welcomed people from all denominations or none, and I tried to  follow that ideal in these lectures, in trying to present things that will fit for people of every background. But I felt, as I was coming out of seminary, I was praying  about it, and I felt that God was leading me into a denomination, that he did not  want me in a non denominational church, but that he wanted me in a  denomination, in my case, the Methodist Church. What was, at that time, the  United Methodist Church. And still, as I'm recording this technically, that's the  name of it. But I won't go into all of that. There's, there's a lot going on with that.  But my own experience is that there are some issues with denominations. They  can be top heavy with bureaucracy. They can take. Actions that I disagree with,  and the United Methodist Church certainly has, and sometimes, or shall I say,  elements of the church have, and yet I still see tremendous advantages to being

part of a denomination or an association. And let me speak to the difference  there, as I understand it primarily an association, or at least as I'm using the  words to make the distinction, an association is a voluntary getting together  group of churches that voluntarily work together and support things together,  

and pretty much all have the same kind of theology and understanding of church polity, but they are still independent churches, and at Any time, they can  withdraw from the Association, and the leadership of the association doesn't  have a whole lot of authority to force them, to compel them to do things or to say or believe things that they don't want to, whereas in a denomination that is much more structured kind of a thing. And typically it refers to the more mainline  denominations, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopal those kinds. And  typically there is much more of a an authority structure over the church that has  actual power, sometimes through controlling money and so on. So anyway,  that's that's how I see the difference. And so either denominations or  associations can have top heavy bureaucracy, can do things that you might  disagree with, but I still see tremendous advantages to working together with a  large group of other churches that you can band together toward the same goal, you can combine your resources a denomination can take a little bit of money  contributed by all the different churches and put it all together to, For instance,  create Sunday School material that reflects their particular outlook, or a hymnal  that reflects the songs that reflect the theology and the history and the tradition  of the denomination. A little bit of money from a whole lot of churches put  together can be used to resource a lot of things, hospitals, mission activities, all  kinds of different activities that can be done by a lot of churches working  together that one church individually could not do working together in a  denomination or association can give the church a voice that will be heard, that  will be paid attention to by leaders of all kinds, political leaders, government  leaders, whatever if a pastor writes a letter to a government official, for instance, protesting a certain kind of action or encouraging different kind of action, if the  pastor says, I'm Pastor so and So and I represent the 85 people in my  congregation. That is very different than if somebody can write and say, I am  Pastor so and so, and I'm the president of this association of this denomination  that represents 3 million people, which one's going to be listened to more? I  think the the one that represents the 3 million people. So combining together  can give voice. Now, if you don't agree with what the voice is saying, that's a  different issue. But, and we'll get to that in just a moment, but there is that  strength and that value. Oversight is an important part, I believe, of a  denomination or an association, particularly in the area of ordination, because a  I think I mentioned this at the beginning about becoming a pastor. When a body  ordains a pastor, they are saying that they are taking the responsibility to assure any church that might come under the leadership of that pastor, that the pastor,  the minister is trained, is equipped, is of a good character, is going to do what 

they are looking for them to do what the church the ministry is looking for a  minister to do. They can also a denomination and some associations, depending on how it's set up, but most denominations have oversight to where if it comes  to their attention that this minister is not fulfilling their vows or is beginning to  teach heresies or beginning to do something else that's not appropriate, they  can rescind the ministerial credentials and or remove the the minister from that  congregation, and they have that kind of oversight and authority, and that is a  protection more for the congregations than for the minister, but it can be a  protection for the minister as well, to to be told because maybe the minister  didn't know that he or she was going off in the wrong direction, and so they had  the oversight to correct that? What if you're in a denomination and you disagree  with what you're doing? I will tell you that I have quite some experience with that myself, personally, for as long the way I approach it personally is as long as the  question is still being debated, I will stay in and represent what I understand to  be the proper biblical viewpoint, if it ever became the official position of a  denomination that I was serving a church in that denomination, and their official  denominational position changed from one that I agreed with to one that I  disagreed with, then I would really have to pray about, can I still allow myself My name, my ministry, to be associated with an organization that is now saying this  thing that I don't agree with, and you have to say, is it important enough? You  know, how big a deal is it? But for me personally, I would not want my name  associated with an organization whose official teaching was something that I felt  was not biblical. In that case, I would have to look into appropriate ways of  changing my affiliation. That just me, you need to deal with that the way that you feel God is leading you if you have a church and you're not part of a  denomination, but you start thinking about some of these things I've said, as you know, it might be valuable, then I would encourage you to look around. There  are a whole lot of different denominations, a whole lot of different associations, a whole lot of different organizations, and I'm not going to encourage you to look  for any particular one or even any particular kind or denomination versus  Association. You just find out what seems best. All I'm saying is that there is a lot of value in working with other churches and a large organization of other  churches that has resources and voice and oversight and so on. What about  other churches in your area when the Bible says, I'm sure you know this already. When the Bible says, say, for instance, Paul write, wrote his letter to the  Corinthians in I Corinthians 1:2, he says first. Verse 1 says, this is Paul called to  be an apostle and so on. And then in verse two, he says, who he's writing it to?  He says to the church of God that is in Corinth. Now, was that one building was  there just one church in the city of Corinth. There was one church in the sense  that it's all the Christians, but there was not one place where all. The Christians  in the city of Corinth gathered together every week. I told you before that  throughout the New Testament, the Christians met in homes. So the Church of 

God that's in Corinth, the church of Corinth is all of the churches, all of the  Christians meeting in the various house churches, all considered as one. The  last church that I served after I retired was a small town, part time, very small  congregation in a town called Eminence, Missouri, and I had wonderful relations with the other pastors in that town, better than I ever had anywhere else in my  ministry. And one time we had a joint worship service. All the churches in the city got together and joined together in one worship service at the local ball field.  And some of us, different of us, were asked to say a few words. And when it was my opportunity, I asked, how many churches are there in Eminence when  people started counting on their fingers, well as the Church of Christ, and there's the Assembly of God, and I said, No, no, there's just one church in Eminence.  We meet in different buildings, and we have different pastors. We like different  forms of music, we like different styles of preaching, but we all believe in Jesus,  there is just one church in Eminence, and people really liked that. They got that.  So there is just one church. Now, sometimes we tend to want to look at the other congregations that are near us as the competition, we tend to say, well, there's  always certain number of Christians in this town. There's only a certain number  of people in this town, and I want to get as many of them as I can into my  church, because we've got these activities going, and you probably most likely,  honestly believe that the way your church does things is best. If you didn't think  it was best, you'd change the way you do things to what you did think was best.  But the churches, the other churches in your area, are not your competition.  They are there because God knows that he created all of us to relate to him in  different ways. There's a wonderful book called the three colors of your  spirituality that lays out about nine different ways, because it takes three  variations of each color or combinations of colors, comes up with nine different  ways that this altar sees how people relate to God. Some people relate to God  very intellectually. Some relate very emotionally. Some relate in silence. Some  relate in service. Some are inspired by beautiful surroundings. Others are  inspired by solitude. So I believe God allows these different denominations and  different churches to allow for the different ways that people relate. Now you're  going to have people who relate to God in all those different ways in your  congregation, and you need to try to recognize that and do things in a way that  will speak to however they hear from God all the people in your congregation,  but other churches are not Your competition. There is a phrase that comes from  the idea of the pastor as the shepherd. The pastor's a shepherd, and the people  in the congregation are the sheep, the flock that the pastor looks after. And so  some there is a phrase that has come up called sheep stealing, which is when  one pastor or the people of one ministry one church try and lure away the  Christians who are in another church. And this pastor is saying, don't forget, next Sunday, we meet at the church across the street for our annual sheep stealing  competition. He's got it. It's almost like he and the pastor of the church across 

the street who decided, okay, every Sunday, every year, we're going to have one Sunday when we're all together and we have like a battle of the bands, and we'll see who goes this way and who goes this way, and maybe some of the people  will change their minds, and if you're going to do it, that's that's the way to do it.  Do it in a friendly way together. But sheep stealing is not good. You don't build  your church by stealing somebody else's sheep. You build your church by  bringing in non Christians and helping them become the sheep, helping them  come into the family. And let me say that again, other churches are not your  competition. They are your sisters and brothers. Your competition is the world,  the flesh and the devil. Your competition is the bed on Sunday morning  somebody doesn't want to get out of bed. Or your competition is the ball game  that they want to stay home and watch or go go and watch instead of coming to  church. Or your competition is the bar that keeps them out so late Saturday  night that they can't get up on Sunday morning and come to church, your  competition is all of the the false philosophies of the world that the world would  try to feed your people, and all the the temptations of the flesh that would try to  keep people away from the Lord, and all of them inspired by the devil. So that's  your competition. The other pastors, the other ministers in your area,  particularly, should be your brothers and sisters. Because, as I mentioned  before, I think nobody other than a minister can understand really what a  minister is going through, except maybe a minister's spouse. So join together  with other ministers to pray. Pray for each other. You can also join together in  cooperative ministries like that. All all city, all church service that we had in the  ball field that one time. Or like I'm old enough to remember Billy Graham  crusades, when he would come around to the various cities and invite all the  different churches to come and support the crusade. And then people who came to the Lord in the crusade, all the different churches would share in the follow up of all of those people and have opportunity for them to come into their  congregations. Cooperative ministries, joint worship services, as I mentioned,  that's actually the one that we did in the ball field. Cooperative ministries would  be more like sponsoring a crusade. Or, again, in this city of Eminence, it was a  very poor area, and so the churches would work together to raise money and to  bring in supplies so that they could give each child going into school at the  beginning of the year a backpack full of school supplies, and all the churches  worked on that together, cooperative ministries, mutual accountability, make  sure that, as I said, it's important that there's somebody beyond your local  congregation who can hold you accountable. So mutual accountability. When  you get to really close enough to where you can trust the other ministers in the  area, then you can begin to share with each other. You know, I'm having trouble  with this. Can you? Can you next time we meet, could you ask me how I'm doing with this, and then by knowing that you're going to ask me that will help me  resist temptations, so holding each other accountable and sharing with each 

other information about church hoppers. Somebody comes to your church and  you say, Well, where did you come from? Oh, I came from this other church, and they start to run down the pastor of the other church, or even maybe not, but let  the other pastor know they they may not even know that the person left, or know where they went, or know why they went. And there's some people adjust hop  from church to church to church to church to church. And you can work together  to find a way to stop enabling that action so that they're forced to actually stop  going around trying to meet their own satisfaction of what kind of a church  makes me happen to actually growing in the Lord and share information with  each other about con artists. The last place I had full time, there were people  that would go around from church to church to church, asking for money using  the same old story and. we got to where we would warn each other, and we  would tell each other, this person's coming around, and they're they're using this story, and they're saying this, and it's not true. We've checked it out, so don't  give them any money. So you can help each other out with that that way as well. Other churches are not your competition. They're your sisters and your brothers  your competition together. You all are one team, you and the churches in your  community, you and the churches around are one team and your competition.  The other team is the world, the flesh and the devil. So it's not you against the  churches, against the other churches. It's you and all your Christian brothers  and sisters against everything that would keep people from coming to the Lord  and joining the family and becoming like Jesus, see you next time