Henry Reyenga - Now there's a lot of people that know of someone, or even  themselves, have had a near death experience. I've even noticed my wife has  noticed Abigail had noticed and many of the testimonies that come at Christian  leaders Institute of near death experiences. And this brings a lot of questions up  the philosophy of what that means. It brings up questions about, you know,  afterlife in but it also brings up something else that I want to talk about today  with my philosophy team over here. I want to talk about the multiverse now.  Okay, so do Christians have an understanding of a universe, a multiverse? I  know there's all these terms. This is a big topic today, because Richard Hawkins talks about his last article he published was about the multiverse and it could  happen based upon his mathematical calculations and all of that stuff. And I  don't want to get into that whole argument, but in a lot of ways, Christians, you  know, it was Isaac Newton who even mentioned the multiverse at some point. I  mean, at some point, there's acknowledgment that, so Dr Clouser, is there a  multiverse?  

Dr. Clouser - Well, in the way that it's talked about by many people in science  today, I wouldn't subscribe to it. What they mean is that there may be so many  universes just like ours that the things that happen in ours that look so designed  that they have trouble rejecting that they say that if there's an infinite number of  universes, sooner or later, one like this would have shown up, right? Is there  more to creation than we see? And  

Henry Reyenga - you know, one reality, universe, but in a sense that from a  religious standpoint, because there's even in like Wikipedia, the multiverse in the spiritual sense, and in the Arkham, currently, as of 2018 there's not even  mentioned that of Christianity, and yet Jesus goes to the thief on the cross.  Today, you'll be we with me in paradise?  

Dr. Clouser - That's right. So there, the Christians and Jews have always  believed that there's more to creation than just the part we live in every day, and  there's a great deal that we don't see. And New Testament speaks about Paul  being swept up in the vision to the seventh heaven. Okay, we have all kinds of  levels to this other dimension, the reality and but, but, of course, if Jews or  Christians say there's another reality over and above this earthly one, they're  being superstitious and foolish, right? If the scientist says, well, there are many,  maybe many universes old, and that's brilliant and scientific, the same thing  happens about other rational beings. Are there other rational beings besides us  Jews and Christians have always said, yes, they're angelic beings. They're not  demonic beings. And that's course, dismissed the sheer superstition. But if an  astrophysicist says somewhere in the universe there may be other intelligent  beings, then that's very forward looking and open minded, 

Henry Reyenga - right? So really, so really, maybe it's the day in the age where  we say, Yeah, we believe in a multiverse. We always have, and we always will.  And in fact, think about, like, prayers. I mean, you know, actually, we started  talking about multiverse. We were on the phone in January, mentioned  something multiverse, and out of the US dropped it out there and for something.  And I started thinking about it. I was thinking like, you know, to me, one of the  things growing up, you know, when I learned about prayer, you know, so in my  mind, I imagined, okay, I pray. So my prayers incense, it says in the Bible. So I  remember as a 15-16, year old thinking, so I pray, and somehow I go, you know, I'm down to the Star Trekkie by the way, okay, Star Trek. And they're like  showing me that the quote, universe is pretty large. Where is God, and I'm  thinking about that already, so I'm praying, and then I'm thinking, Well, do the  prayers? How do they but when this in January, when you introduced that term  to me, I started thinking about like, maybe the reality of Heaven is so close,  yeah, sure. It's a different dimension, another verse, another reality, yes, but that reality is as real it's in this very room when someone dies back to the near death experience. It's not like they got to go first through a quasar and they got to go  they. Is there. So in a lot of ways, we at Christianity do live in a multiverse,  different reality, yes, with  

Dr. Clouser - other rational beings. Yeah. And  

Bob Zomermaand - one of the things, when you mentioned prayer, you know  when, when you know the psalmist says, Before a word is on my lips, thou know it. God is that close. God is that close.  

Dr. Clouser - I like what you said last night, when the when we use incense and  worship, it reaches Heaven before it reaches the ceiling of the church, because  Heaven's right there behind this reality,  

Henry Reyenga - right? Yeah, well, and again, I look at so many things that  back to the point you made about how when a scientist says something, and I  would say the multiverse understanding after Hawkins has said this, now it's  kind of fun  

Dr. Clouser - as a way to get out of admitting that the world looks designed  Right. So I get that if there are enough universes, and sooner or later, one like  this would have turned up, it's not so unusual, and, in fact, it's inevitable. If  there's an infinite number of that, that's it's pretty lame, because you've got there presented as a scientific hypothesis, something that can never be empirically  confirmed, right? Possible. You, you're not going to get out of this universe in 

order to see whether there are other so a  

Henry Reyenga - lot of ways, without him knowing that he's entered into our  space of evidence.  

Dr. Clouser - It reminds me what Calvin said about miracles. Calvin says, if  there were no miracle stories in the Bible, then people would say, Well, if this is  really God's word, he would have done miracles to certify it, right? But there are  miracle stories in the Bible. So people say, How can we believe that it's miracle  stories in it? It's about word. It's again, yeah,  

Bob Zomermaand - one, one can object however one feels like he's going to  reject object.  

Dr. Clouser - But the arguments actually beg the question. They just assume  they're right, and in fact, what they're trying to make right is their religious belief,  as opposed to ours. It's not science is against religion. It's what they're regarding as the self existent ultimate reality, pitted over against God as the self existent,  ultimate reality. And they can do that in the trappings of science and try to get  away with it, slide it off as though that's a piece of the science. But it's not,  

Henry Reyenga - you know, just ending this little segment. So creation, Genesis is described. It first starts with God created. So God in another reality creates  our reality. 

Dr. Clouser - And in Hebrew, in ancient Hebrew, there was no word for  universe. The word for everything was the expression heavens and earth, right?  So in the beginning are the Heaven. The hearing is everything. God creates the  heavens and the whole realm of creation, right?  

Henry Reyenga - Then it goes through the whole Bible, and we see times when  other beings, angelic beings, visit that one dimension crosses over, and God  knows how to do that. And then you get like visions. So you know, Prophet saw  visions. And these worlds, these universes, are connected.  

Dr. Clouser - And many, many sincere Christians think that what Christianity  teaches is that it's a way to leave this earth in this world and go to heaven  forever. And that's precisely what the New Testament denies. Oh, yeah,  resurrection. Heaven is going to come to Earth.  

Henry Reyenga - Okay, so let's so here comes Jesus. So he's incarnate, so he  is like dwelling in our reality, so he casts his tent in our reality, yeah, okay. And 

then he's brings forgiveness of our sins, which was like in all universes. And  from the dead, yeah, okay. And then, you know, the gospel is proclaimed. And  then in Revelations, yeah, the division of heaven.  

Dr. Clouser - So Earth is our home, yes, not to be dismissed. It's it's going to be renovated, yeah, like that. It's good, that's right, but, but this is where we're  going to be forever.  

Henry Reyenga - Okay? One little thing, just to answer that. So someone dies,  we start with near death experiences. So, you know, near death they leave, and  then God's wisdom they come back. Okay. But you know, that's not necessarily  

the most common thing. The most common thing when my mother died a few  years ago is like she passed away reciting Psalm 23 yea. Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death. You know, take me, Lord. Okay, so she  passes away. Okay, now, like her soul, her essence, really, now, is in another  dimension with Christ. In Christ, okay, so And yet in the resurrection, her soul, in  her physical presence, rise from the dead,  

Dr. Clouser - we have a new body, which unlike the old one. This is I  Corinthians 15. But unlike the old one, this one won't decay and fall apart. It  won't be this kind of body. So that's pretty cool.  

Henry Reyenga - So here we are, the multiverse, Heaven and Earth, coming  together in our prayers, near death experiences, I mean, and again, Christianity,  in its worldview and the word of God, has been saying this all along. Yes,  

Dr. Clouser - that's right, been the same story for over 2000 years, then, very  Henry Reyenga - good. Thanks, guys. I just want to talk about that right now. 



Остання зміна: понеділок 14 жовтня 2024 09:01 AM