Video Transcript: Honest

All right, being an effective manager. Task number eight, honest communication, the great killer of organizations. Proverbs 16:28, a troublemaker plants seeds of  strife. Gossip separates the best of friends. What is Gossip? Gossip is talking  negatively about someone who is not there to defend themselves. Well, why do  people gossip? Why in an organization do people Why do staff members  gossip? Why do church members gossip? Why in every single company do  people gossip? Why would you talk negatively about someone who is not there? Number one, it makes those gossiping feel superior. If I'm talking about an  associate of mine in a negative manner with someone else, you know. You  know, I heard Bob, Pastor, Bob do a little preaching the other day. I hadn't heard him, and I thought his sermon was really shallow, really. I thought the same  thing, really, yeah. I mean, he didn't even deal with that, you know. And as we're  talking, of course, my sermons are not shallow. My sermons are not all the  negative things that I'm saying about his sermons. And if he's here, then I'm up  here. So it just I'm talking negatively about someone. And of course, they can't  defend themselves. I can slant it any way that I want. I can see it in the worst  possible light, and that just makes mine look better. Number two, jealousy. I'm in competition with someone. I'm feeling insecure because maybe their sermons  are better. People like it when he preaches, not when I preach, and so when he  does, I'm trying to knock him down to my level. Why do people listen to gossip? I mean, not only do people gossip, but people have to be listening. If no one  would listen to gossip, then no one would gossip. So someone is enjoying  listening. Why? It makes those listening feel superior? So as I'm listening to you  say something negative about someone else. I'm feeling superior to that person  too. Number two, it makes the whole group feel like they're part of some  alliance. You know, we're part of this in crowd, so if three of us are talking  negatively about someone else, somehow our united front against someone  else who's not there to defend themselves, somehow, as we unite together  against that person, it makes us feel like we're a team. Hey, yeah, you know, I  feel the same way that you do. Ah, we must be on the same page. There's this  connection that we feel. Well, how does gossip then kill an organization? Why  does talking something, talking negatively about someone who's not there to  defend themselves? Why does that hurt organization? And believe me, it does.  I've seen organization, one organization that I was a part of, the gossip literally  took it from a big, successful organization to a small, struggling, one, number  one, if people are willing to talk about someone negatively behind their back,  they will certainly be willing to talk about you negatively behind your back. So  you're talking with someone, you know, we're on the golf course and we're  talking negatively about someone else, and we're enjoying it, you know, like  we're in cahoots. We're both feeling good about how superior we are to that  person, and it feels like we're on the same team. But if the person I'm talking to  is willing to talk about someone else negatively behind their back, why wouldn't 

they end up talking to someone else about me negatively, and most assuredly,  they will. So once you start talking negatively about someone who's not there to  defend themselves, you'll talk about anyone negatively with you behind their  back. So number two, people tend to believe the gossip they hear. Hey, did you  hear? What? What? Sandy did? No, tell me about it. Well, I heard and then they  say something, and you tend to believe it. Why would you tell me a lie? Why?  You know, even when you ask people that, well, are you sure it's true? Yeah, I  heard it from Bob, and I don't know why he would make it up. I mean, who would make up this stuff? So people tend to believe the gossip that they hear. And as  the gossip goes around, the story gets worse and worse. Maybe you played that game where you have 20 people, young people will get together in a room, and  they'll play this game, and they'll whisper some little story, and then the next  person has to whisper it to the next person and the next person, and it goes  around, and by the time it goes. All the way around the room, the story is hardly  recognizable, because people don't either they don't hear the story accurately,  or they don't communicate the story accurately, or someone misinterprets, or  they misunderstand. And then that grows and changes, and soon the story is  nowhere near the truth, but everyone thinks they're getting the exact thing right,  that gossip is true. There's no way a person can defend themselves against the  gossip going around round about them. So as the gossip goes around, finally, it  gets back to the person that the gossip is about. They can hardly believe the  story. It's unrecognizable. And they want to, they want, they want something to  happen so they find out who started this. They go to them and say, Hey, what is  the deal? And, and it's almost impossible to not look defensive and not look  guilty, because now you're angry, you're frustrated, and the more you try to  defend yourself, the more guilty you look. Even if the two people that are  involved, the person who started the gossip and the person that it's the gossip is about, even if these two people sit down and talk things through, there's no way  to go back and correct everyone that heard the original gossip. So gossip goes  from one person to another person, to another person to another person. As  soon it gets all over the place, the person that's being gossiped about finally  goes to the person who started it. They talk and they all, I see it was a  misunderstanding. Oh, that. Oh well, I see what's going on, and now they've  resolved it. But how are you going to go and resolve it with all the people that  heard some crazy story, it's impossible to go to everyone and and change the  story, so people still have this negative feeling out there. Number six, the result  is anger, distrust and more gossip. Now I'm going to start gossiping about the  person who gossiped about me. Soon, no one trusts anyone, so in an  organization, soon, I don't know who to trust. I don't know what is true. I don't  know what what is not true. No one knows the truth, and no one dares speak the truth. I don't dare confront someone. I don't dare say what I really think, because I don't know what you're going to do with it, what you're going to say to someone

else, you're going to take your version of what I said, and it's going to get  changed. Remember meeting with someone from my church, and they were  grumpy. They didn't like anything. No matter what we did at church, they didn't  like it. So I was visiting with them, with it, with an elder. They were complaining  about everything under the sun. Finally, I looked at him, and I said, Well, why do  you go to this church? Then, I mean, if you don't like anything, then why do you  go? And they didn't say anything to that. And then we left. And later on, I found  out that they were running around, telling people that I kicked them out of the  church that I told them to leave the church that was their version of it, and like  what, I didn't ask anyone to leave the church. I simply asked, Why do you go?  Because you don't like anything. So soon You don't dare say anything, because  you're afraid someone's going to misunderstand what you say, and then they're  going to start telling everyone, and then everyone's going to believe what they  say. You know. Why would this? Why would the pastor say, you know, why  would the pastor kick you out of the church? And why would you lie about that?  So people tend to believe what they hear. Well, how can a manager create a  culture of honest communication without honest communication. You don't know where you're at with anything, the whole organization is going to fall apart.  Matthew 18, I mean, Jesus addressed this exact issue. Matthew 18, if another  believer sins against, you go privately and point out the offense. If the other  person listens and confesses it you have won the person back. But if you're  unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again so that  everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. If the person  still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he won't accept the  church's decision treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector. I tell  you the truth, whatever you forbid on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and  whatever your permit on earth will be permitted in heaven. I also tell you this, if  two of you agree here on earth concerning anything you ask, My Father in  Heaven will do it for you, For where two or three gather together as my  followers, I am there among them. So someone offends someone. How does  this work? So number one, Bob, let's say Bob does or says something that  offends Sue. You know, he says something in sense that and Sue gets offended. Sue must go to and talk about the offense with Bob. That's what Matthew 18  says. Bob says something offensive, at least it is to Sue. Sue should then go  directly to Bob, not to someone else, but directly to Bob, and talk to him about it. If Bob does not listen, or the issue can't be resolved. Sue is now free to talk to  someone else about it. Let's say Mary. So Sue. Then must bring Mary to Bob  eventually to try to resolve the issue. So Sue is offended. Goes to Bob. Bob  doesn't listen. Sue now goes to Mary. Tells her all about it, but now Mary and  Sue must go to Bob and try to resolve the issue. Number five, if that doesn't  work, the leaders get involved. That's how Matthew 18 is supposed to go. But  this is how it usually goes. Bob does or says something that offends Sue. Sue 

knows that Bob won't listen to her complaints, so she does not talk to him, but  instead talks to a good friend, Mary, who is more than willing to sympathize with  Sue. Sue's my friend. I care about how she feels. She's all excited, she's all  upset, and so now Mary has this negative opinion about Bob, she has she didn't  see the incident, she didn't hear what Bob said, but she assumes that Bob is as  guilty as Sue is painting the picture. Mary then talks to others in the  organization, and eventually the story, which is exaggerated, gets back to Bob.  So now this story goes around, this exaggerated thing finally gets to Bobby, and  Bob doesn't know even that Sue was offended at all. So Bob is now really angry. He's angry that Sue didn't come to him directly. He's angry about this  exaggerated story. That's not what happened at all. And so he talks to Sue, and  let's say, unbelievably, that they even resolved the issue they you know, I didn't  really mean what I said. I mean, people could get offended by almost anything. I  remember when I went to Vancouver, I was gonna see if I wanted to go there to  be the church planter of a new church. And there was a few families that wanted to help do that. And so we had this little worship service with 10 families, and I  came there, and just before the worship service, I had my guitar there. One of  the people in this group had brought their guitar, and it was a, it was a little  guitar. It was just a, you know, half size guitar. I don't think she played that much or anything, but I made this little comment. I said, oh, a baby guitar. That's all I  said, a baby guitar. Well, I came and I planted the church. Three years later, this  same person was on our elder board, and she told me how offended she was  three years before when I had said baby guitar. I mean, I didn't mean anything  by it at all, but she felt like I was saying, you know, you don't have a real guitar,  or perhaps you're not very good. Or, I don't know what she was thinking, but she was offended by that for three years. I knew nothing of it. So people can easily  get offended, and you have no idea that you offended someone. So So finally,  Bob and Sue talked it over, and they go, you know, I didn't mean anything by it,  and they somehow resolve it, okay, but Mary is not going to be able to talk to  everyone who heard the negative, exaggerated version of Bob's complaint. I  mean, everyone that heard this story. You're not going to be able to go back and try to change their minds about the whole thing. And even if you sort of do, they  have in the back of their minds that Bob is an offensive character. And if Bob  ever does anything remotely offensive, they're going to go, oh yeah, I remember Bob is that kind of person. So all of a sudden, Bob is now labeled as that kind of  person. Number seven. In fact, most people still feel negative thoughts towards  Bob, because, how could so many people be wrong? You know, that's the  problem. Once the gossip goes around, so many people are saying it and  thinking that, that people have this sense. Well, you know, I can see one people, one person being wrong. But everyone has had this experience. Everyone  thinks this, and so it's really hard to undo. well. As a manager, how do you  create what I would call a Matthew 18 culture? How do you stop this gossip 

thing from happening? We know what we should do, but it doesn't seem to work. So number one, people should not gossip. I mean, that's what the Scripture  says, We should not be talking negatively about anyone behind their back.  Okay, but the problem is, when a person is hurt by another or offended most  hurt, people cannot help but go to a caring friend with their hurt. They should go  directly to the person. Person who hurt them. That's what Matthew 18 says. But  when a person is hurt, they have no control. It's like the doctor, when he has a  hammer and he hits you on your knee and your knee, your whole leg, springs  up. You have no control over that. Someone hits you there and your here, your  knee immediately springs up. And that's the way hurt is someone offends you  and you're hurt, you immediately want to go to somebody. And why not go to  someone who cares? Why not go to somebody who's going to be sympathetic  towards your hurt, and you're not going to be able to control that. You are going  to do that. We can say you shouldn't do that. We can say, you shouldn't gossip.  You should go directly to the person, but that's just what it's going to happen.  Hurt people are going to seek out sympathetic people. So the fix to this problem  is not a ban on Gossip. I mean, we should try to not to gossip, but it's going to  happen. But what we should do is ban on listening to gossip, because the  person to whom the hurt person goes to with the hurt must not listen to the  complaint, and really they're in a position to not listen. See the hurt person is  hurt, and they can't help it. But if you come to me with your hurt, see, I'm not  hurt. I still have some control. So how do we do this instead the caring person,  the instead the would be the caring would be listener, the person that the hurt  person goes to, should say to the one who got hurt. All right, before you say  anything negative about someone who is not here to defend themselves. Let me ask you a question, did you talk to the person that hurt you directly? If you did  and it didn't go well, and now you want me to go with you to talk to that person?  That's the second step of Matthew 18. Then okay, I will listen. But if you have  not talked to the person directly, then please do so before saying anything to  me. Because, you know, frankly, I don't want you to say something negative to  me, because if you tell me something negative about Bob, Sue. If you tell me  something negative about Bob, what am I supposed to do with that? I can't go to Bob now and say, Hey, by the way, Bob, I was talking to Sue, and Sue said this  negative thing about you. But is that true? Because Bob will go, Well, why are  you listening to gossip? So I am now stuck with all this negative thoughts about  Bob, and there's nothing I can do with it, Sue can at least do something about  her negative thoughts. She can go directly to Bob. I mean, it happened to Bob.  She witnessed it. She can confront him. She can say something. But I the one  listening to the gossip. I can't I can't do anything with it. So now I'm stuck with  this information about Bob. I don't know if it's true. I don't know if it's not true,  and there's nothing I can do about it. So I need to stop when someone starts  talking negatively about someone else, I need to stop them in their tracks. I 

know you're hurt. I know this is a thing that's bothering you, and I want to be a  part of the solution as best I can. But I need to know if you've talked to them or  not. If you've not talked to them, please go talk to them first. And if you don't get  satisfaction, then please come back to me. So if everyone in the organization  did this, the gossip would stop, and people would start learning how to share  their grievances directly with the person who they think hurt them. See, that's  the problem. The problem is we don't think that is going to work. Someone hurts  me. I don't think talking to them is going to do any good. And I need to go  somewhere with my hurt, so I go to someone else. But we need to get over that. We need to face it. And we need the whole community forcing us look, you need to go directly to them. And chances are, you know, get fixed most times, when  grievances are dealt with directly, they can be solved to the satisfaction of both  parties involved. Now, no one else knows, no one else is involved. We don't  have to go around and correct anything. End result, you end up with an  organization where people can say what they think I can say stuff freely and and I know that if I indirectly, or you know beyond my control, somehow I end up  offending you, that you will tell me, that you won't go to someone else, that if I  say something wrong, you will come and we can somehow resolve it. People  are not worried about what others are saying behind their backs. Honest  communication results in better ideas and solutions to problems, if we can  honestly talk and not fear about what people are going to do with what we say or construe or misunderstand and it goes around, if I know that we can deal with  all. Things, then I can say exactly what I think. You can say what you think, and  now we can honestly deal with the problems and the issues that we're facing.  Number four, you end up with a mature organization, rather than an infantile  one. When the gossip is going around an organization, it's like little children.  We're like little children talking about about each other, you know, so and so said this, you know, and so and so is doing this, and so and so doesn't like so and so it's like little kids on the playground. Instead, we have a mature organization  where we can tell the truth, and if offended, we can actually do something about  it, and we can resolve all these problems.