Darren Shearer - welcome back to the theology of business podcast. I'm your  host, Darren Shearer author of the marketplace Christian and marketing like  Jesus, and this is a show that helps marketplace Christians to partner with God  in business, to help you make disciples of your coworkers, your company and  your industry, give more teachings and interviews like the one you're about to  hear at theologyofbusiness.com On today's episode, we're joined by Ford Taylor, and we'll be discussing a biblical model of business leadership part two. And if  you're wondering why is this part two, then you might not have listened to  episode two of the theology of business podcast, because that's when we had  Ford on, and we had a phenomenal conversation. In fact, for this has really  been one of the most popular episodes on the entire podcast in the history of  the show. And and Ford is the first three-peat guest on the show. Ford, what do  you think about that?  

Ford Taylor - Well, Darren, the one thing I do know is I always love being with  you, whether it's face to face or podcast. So I think it's good to get to be a three peat biggest reason because I get to do it with you. So thank you for having me  on again,  

Darren Shearer - all right my friend and and the third episode, actually the last  episode that we had Ford on was a recording of Ford's presentation at the love  2020 conference. You've heard love 2020 in the workplace initiative to reach 155 million workplace people by the year 2020 and Ford is the leader of that  initiative. And by the way, want to make a plug for that go to  

love2020workplace.com, and sign up to be a part of that initiative, as several of  you already have. And that was episode 36 today, we're going to be talking  about Ford's new book, relactional leadership when relationships collide with  transactions, practical tools for every leader and and Ford is not only my friend,  but as I've been able to do life with him over the last couple of years. I think it's  been about two years since we first connected Ford. I've I've seen this lived out  in his life and the way every meeting I've been a part of, every time we've  chatted. I mean, I just see the tools that he talks about just overflowing from his  life. And you're going to hear how he's used this model and his leadership tools  to revive a fledgling t shirt business and turn it into a $300 million publicly traded company. He's the founder of FSH strategy consultants and transformational  leadership, specializing consulting leadership development and cultural change  within businesses and other organizations. And he also leads a charitable  international effort that provides TL to emerging countries worldwide,  transformlead.com. Is the website Ford. Welcome back to the theology of  business podcast.  

Ford Taylor - Well, thank you, Darren. It's a joy to be with you very much. Thank

you.  

Darren Shearer - So people heard me say relactional leadership, and they're  like, did Darren just stumble over his words? It probably wouldn't be the first time I did that, but, the term relactional was a very deliberate term that was coined for the purpose of of communicating this model and these tools. Why don't you  define for our listeners, what do you mean by relactional leadership? Well,  

Ford Taylor - this whole concept during one of the biggest things that we find  inside of organizations. And you know, we define an organization as two or more people in relationship, and if you have influence with one person, that makes  you a leader. So whether it's a family, what we're focused on today is business,  but a business, a government or a classroom, one of the biggest things that we  see is the inability to resolve conflicts, or really conflict avoidance. And one of  the big issues around conflict is not understanding the two types of people that  are in every organization, every workplace. And on one end of this continuum,  we call it the relationship continuum, on one end are people that are highly  relational, and on the other end are people that are highly transactional or highly task oriented. And if you go into a group of room, in a room with a group of  people, and you ask them to raise their hand. If you're highly relational, raise  your hand and highly transactional, raise your hand. And you ask both groups,  what does the other group do to you? They will say terms like, drive me nuts.  They drive me crazy. In the transactional people say they drive me crazy get  something done. And relational people say, you drive me crazy, you know, build  a relationship with me. And so what happens is these two people, these two do.  Different types of people, and there's no right or wrong. We're just different.  They live on the continuum in a different place, and they don't even realize how  much conflict takes place because of something that simple. Now, in most  rooms, if you ask if you're married and you're highly relational, raise your hand.  Now, if your spouse is highly transactional, raise your other hand, and if you ask  that question both ways, most rooms, about 80% of married couples, just on our own. Little quick research, they show to be opposite. And so this alone can  impact a marriage, not even realizing that's what's going on. And so this book is  written using a lot of the TL or transformational leadership tools, ingredients and  behaviors to show people that are highly relational. You know, how can you  become more transactional in your skill set without giving up your natural ability,  your natural tendency to be relational? And how can highly transactional people  become more relational without giving up their natural tendency to be  transactional. And when people get those tools, they become what we call  relactional leaders. In other words, they have a thick foundation relationship.  They can look down both ends of the continuum, and neither end drives them  crazy, because they come to the realization that both ends need each other 

without one, most organizations would fall a piece, fall to pieces, no matter  which one they would be missing. And so understanding that we need both, then you can apply the tools, ingredients and behaviors and become a much more  effective organization.  

Darren Shearer - So we're combining the transactional side, what, what some  people might call the hard side with the soft side of the relational what some  might call a servant leadership approach. In fact, you talked about this. You  started to talk about this a bit on on the first time that I interviewed you, back on  Episode Two. But what are your thoughts on the servant leadership model and  sort of the tension there is in there some tension there with the servant  leadership model and more of a GET er done type of model of leadership.  

Ford Taylor - Yeah, Darren, most people that do the kind of work that you might  call what we do is when we go into a company or organization and do, quote,  consulting, unquote, most people would say, pick one of the two models that are out there. And one is a top down model that most people call command control,  where basically everything has to come back through the leader. And there's a  second model that you turn that model upside down, and it's called servant  leadership. And typically what we show is why neither one of those models are  all that great. Command Control model, a company might be highly profitable,  but the people are high stress, typically low trust, and so the turnover rate might  be higher. Again, they might have to pay their employees more just to pay for  the stress. So people have a lot of anxiety going on, a lot of conflict. they still  don't deal with conflict well, but they might deal with discipline a little bit better  when you turn the model upside down to a servant leader model, historically,  when those first start off, relationships are pretty good, but over time, because in those models, typically conflict is not dealt with. A matter of fact, it might even be avoided more. You know, performance is not dealt with because it's it's more  taught, you know, be nice to each other. You know, serve, serve, serve. And so  neither one of those models, on their own, in my opinion, are the right model,  because yet they are in pretty much total conflict with one another. But you can  get the same outcome with a lot of conflict and a lot of unresolved issues. What  

Darren Shearer - would you say is biblical? I mean, obviously it's very easy to  see a lot of biblical application here, but what would you say is biblical about this model of relactional leadership?  

Ford Taylor - Well, you know when you when you take the top down model, if  you could picture an organizational chart in your mind of top down, and if,  instead of getting rid of it, let's just change the name of it. Let's don't call it  command control. Let's call it visionary, and let's turn the model upside down, 

and let's call it servant leadership. But instead of just serving, let's call it serve,  teach, train and equip, and so if the visionary, if the person who carries the  vision for an organization, cast that vision, it's clear, it's concise, it's inspirational, and the people that follow them, if they see to it that it's that person's job to see  to it, that their team is served through teaching, training and equipping. Then  these two models can morph together, which we call the functional responsibility model, and they start morphing together, and they look much more like an  organism. Well, as those models continue, and the relationships get closer. So if you can imagine in. Instead of boxes in your mind, just imagine circles and this  organism connected by lines that we call functional responsibility, which is what  we call stage three. We call visionary stage one, the servant leadership. Stage  two, functional responsibility, stage three. Think of those lines getting fatter and  closer together, and so those circles coming in closer. We call that the  relactation model, because now those highly transactional people and those  highly relational people are now starting to work closer and closer together. And  then eventually that turns into a fifth model where those circles, if you will,  overlap, and we call that the continuous improvement model. And so if you think  about biblically that we're all part of the same body, every part is equal, but we  have different parts, and so we're functioning differently, so we're functionally  responsible. So in the model that we teach, that relax and then the continuous  improvement, it looks much more like the biblical model, all all different but equal parts, but each has a role to play. So even in that model, you know, the CEO is  still the CEO, mom and dad are still mom and dad, the classroom school  teacher is still the classroom school teacher, but they're doing it with the tools,  ingredients and behavior, where there's not as much conflict. They are driving to try to get consensus on what we're going to do to move to the next level. But if  there is not consensus, it's not a big deal, because the person that's functionally  responsible you know that that part of the body, that CEO, is still the CEO, and  so they have to step in and make the decision, but not from a command control  perspective, but from a functional responsibility perspective, that their  responsibility if there's if they can't get consensus. And so when you walk out of  a room that's operating in this model, even if you and I don't agree 100% on  what we're going to do, we've agreed 100% to go do it together, because we  know, if that's not the best answer, we're going to come back into a room under  the continuous improvement model and come up with the different answer. But  we're not going to be in conflict on what we're doing, because we've agreed that  even if we don't agree, you and I are on the same page. The CEO has said this  is what we're going to do. We're in agreement. We're going to go do it, knowing  that if it's not the best answer, we can come back and change course.  

Darren Shearer - And you've pointed out the example in the Bible of Mary and  Martha as an example of that tension between the transactional approach of the

task orientation with the relational approach of the more people orientation, what would you say about about the application there?  

Ford Taylor - Well, I mean, they're just a perfect example of someone who's  highly relational compared to someone who's highly transactional. And I don't  ever remember either one of them being corrected or told that they were wrong.  I do think Jesus wanted transaction to come sit with him and be with him, but I  don't think he was saying, therefore, don't ever go get the job done. And so, you  know, I don't know this for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if Paul and Barnabas weren't on opposite ends the continuum based on what happened between  them. I don't know that for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me that we find that out  one day. But if we understand that both those people exist in our organizations,  we need both people. You know, the world says it's it's bad, it's unhealthy to  have a need to be needed. Well, in the same where Paul writes this  organizational model, we're all part of the same body. He actually says we need  each other. Well, if we need each other, that means we have to have some level  of a need to be needed. Now, can you have an unhealthy need to be needed  absolutely but the truth is relacttional, this relacttional leadership that we're  talking about. We need relational people and we need transactional people on  our team. But if we can operate from a relacttional lens, it allows those people to defer to wherever they need to defer to when it's time. An example on our team,  we've made a decision, we have an agreement, that we are moving towards the  transaction. And if we get on the phone, if there's any relational issue, and I say  on the phone because we are, you know, different cities all over the world, but if  we if there is a relational existing issue that exists, we will stop the transaction  and deal with the relational issue. And the reason is because we know when the relationships are good, the transactions soar and when relationships are bad,  there's low trust, the cohesiveness goes away, the Unity goes away, and so the  very transactions themselves suffer because the relationships aren't good. And  so that's just a decision we've made, but we. Know that the hard side benefits  from having the heart the soft side to use your terms, having the soft side in  place. Yeah,  

Darren Shearer - I love that. So give us an example, and you have lived this out and all different value you point out that this, this stuff, works in the private,  public, social sector, in your family and your school. It works just all over the  place, with anyone with whom you have influence and and, but there was a  particular example of how you live this out, as when you turn around this, this  company that was bankrupt, losing about a quarter million dollars a month, and  you turn it into a $300 million publicly traded company. I think a lot of people,  when they think about going in to do a company turnaround, they get the image  of somebody coming in there with the iron fist that just is firing people left and 

right and, you know, just hammering it, pointing at the bottom line. But as I and  full disclosure here folks, my company, High bridge books, published this  wonderful book by Ford Taylor. So want to make sure y'all understand that, you  know, a little bit biased, but I can tell you that I have not come across, and I'm  not by any means, the first person to say this, that this is the most practical,  applicable leadership book that you will may ever read, certainly that I have,  have ever read, and I actually got the privilege to be able to work on this book  with Ford. So you know, if there are any, you know, typos or anything like that in  there, don't blame Ford. You know, send me an email and we'll get it. We'll get it  taken care of, but, but there was an example of how you turn this company  around, but using what some would consider the soft side. It's like, you know  how? Like, it is almost counterintuitive, paradoxical, that you're going to come in  there with such an emphasis on the people side versus the transactional side,  but, but tell us that story. Go ahead and set the stage for that particular story,  and then like to get into three of what really are my favorite tools that you talk  about in the relactional leadership book, but give us a context for what was  going on there. Okay,  

Ford Taylor - first of all, yes, Darren, you've been so helpful. Maybe the listeners ought to hear this. I'm a lover, not a fighter. I'm a talker, not a writer, and so the  way that you stepped in and helped me with the writing and the publishing. But  Darren, I think one of the things in that process that brought me to a little bit of  Tears is I know that you've done this with a lot of people, you know, and when  you told me that this was going slower because it's the most practical book  you'd ever read or been a part of, and that you were finding yourself wanting  and needing to apply it as you were writing it. I just said, Man, that that for me,  that just brought tears to my eyes, because a man who's done all that that would make that comment about, hey, I'm gonna have to go a little slower because I'm  applying this as I go. That meant a ton to me, and it made me know that, you  know, we got the right guy helping us here,  

Darren Shearer - exactly what happened. I mean, like, I would get a hold of  something, and I would, I would start, I mean, my wife got a fair dose of of, you  know, my reflections on on your book, and on on this, on these principles and  tools. And it just really, because that's the thing about when you read a book  that's practical, like this. There are many just kind of very intellectual, conceptual books. But when you're when you're faced with a tool, you know, Ford's putting  this tool in your hand now, you have a decision to make when you close that  book and get up and walk around your office or go back to start interacting with  customers. Whatever you're doing, am I going to implement this stuff? And you  just see the opportunities all around you. So you know, definitely commend the  what you've done here for it. I know that it's already helped 1000s, 10s of 1000s,

maybe hundreds of millions, of people, and you know, so, so now let's get back  to the question at hand. So when to hear about this, this story of this company  turnaround, and how you use these tools?  

Ford Taylor - Okay, it's basically a couple of stories. One is, you know, when I  was 25 years old, we bought a company that had one foot in the door  bankruptcy. The bank was going to close them down. And over the next nine  years, we had a lot of success and growth. Some venture capitalists called us  and said, hey, we'd like to buy a part of your company and use what you're  doing and buy a bigger companies that are broken, because that was our  strategy by broken companies, fix them and turn them around. And then, as  you've read, over that 16 year period, I found myself being the CEO of this  publicly traded company with really no dream or desire to ever do that. So I  ended up owning a smaller piece of a much bigger thing than what we had  grown originally. Then, as you know, we became number one in our industry, in  the trade journal, which led to a lot of pride, a lot of arrogance. And I found  myself that my private life and my public life did not line up. And because of that, I had to go confess to my wife, after God got back a hold of me of how I had  cheated on her and in this season, and thank goodness she forgave me. Well,  when God got a hold of me and said, I want you to quit doing what you do for  you. I want you to do it for me and for others, I had not realized that so much of  what we had used to turn companies around, I had not applied to my personal  life near as well as I applied to my business life. And that's this whole thing that  you're trying to teach. This Theology at work is understanding it's how it's all  connected, that your church life, your business life, your private life, there should be no different person in which, Ford Taylor, ought to be the same, no matter  where he is. But I wasn't at that time. And as I as God, got a hold of me. I took  this material, you know, to my pastor, and asked him, by any chance, was it in  the Bible? And then the three other pastors, and they all came back and said,  You have no idea what you have. And I said, so it's in there? They said, Yes. I  said, Where? They said, find it yourself. So I started realizing, as I read the Bible that so much of our success had been based on the fact that these were  kingdom principles. And you know, I was arrogant, thinking I was God's gift of  business, when all along, he had given me a gift of Business at these tools that  work for everybody. And so when I started intentionally using this material, as  opposed to just kind of doing what I had done that worked. And while it was  intentional, I didn't necessarily go in with the acronyms and the things, so we  started putting it together in a way that we could intentionally show other people  what we had done. Well, one of those was a company that had was losing about $250,000 a month, and the bank had given them seven weeks to get fixed, or  they were going to take the company away, they were going to close the doors.  And this is one of the stories in the book. And what happened was the bank 

said, If you'll use our turnaround specialist, we'll give you longer. Well, the  owners of the company with me, because they asked me, What would you do? I said I would use their turnaround people. Seven weeks is not long to I mean,  this is this problem. This company is a mess. And they got on the phone with me in the room and called the bank and said we decided to use Ford and TL, as  opposed to your turnaround guy, your turnaround experts. And in that seven  week period, the bank said we've never seen this kind of turnaround before this  fast and over the 90 day period, you know, we took them from losing about 250  a month to making about 250 a month, and that company is still thriving today.  So, but yes, when we go in, you know, we do have to especially a turnaround.  You do have to look at the transactional as well as the relational side of what's  going on, but if you don't have some relationship built, it's very difficult to have  those tough conversations around the transactions. You can't you can't have  those tough conversations. This particular company actually appointed me as  the interim CEO, but I don't do that often, but they just had such a short window  to get it fixed. But yeah, so we go in on day one, and we actually put tools into  place on how to resolve conflict. You know, we show, you know, here, here's,  here's how we're going to treat each other, and here's how we're going to deal  with it. If one of us break it, and we go through some of the relational stuff to lay  the foundation on day one, and all those companies that we bought and turned  around, and I'll call it my first career, you know, that's what we did. We'd go in on day one and we'd put these tools in place to be sure that people knew the guard rails by which we were going to operate, and get this company turned around.  And those were highly relational, but that quickly moved us. It had to be quick,  because these companies were turnarounds. It moved us into being able to  have some difficult transactional conversations to get things fixed and get them  fixed very  

Darren Shearer - quickly. And one of the one of the tools that you teach is the  social covenant. What is that? What did that look like during the process of this  turnaround?  

Ford Taylor - Okay, well, Darren, it's interesting. Of all the organizations I've  worked with, there's about six things that's it's one of these six things. It's almost always the biggest constraint. And I'm not going to go into what the six. Are. But  one of those things, you can either call it the inability to resolve conflict and do  discipline. You can call it conflict avoidance, but that's normal in most  organizations. And so we go in and we put this thing in place called a social  covenant, and we tell them we don't care what you call it. You know, when we're  gone, most of them keep that name, but if that is too strong of a word for them,  then we're okay with social contract, relational promise. I mean, it doesn't matter to us. But on they answer a question, how are we gonna treat each other? And 

then they answer the question, how are we gonna deal with it if one of us breaks this agreement on how we're gonna treat each other, and pretty much  everybody agrees on the words, you know, with respect and honor, we're going  to listen to one another, encourage one another. You know, words like, Hey,  we're going to gossip about each other. We're going to show bitterness and  anger. I mean, those words never come out. Well, then you ask the question,  how would we deal with it? And ultimately, pretty much every every organization  comes up with the same process. If one of us breaks the agreement, we're  going to go to that person one on one. If that doesn't work, we're going to take  one or two agreed upon people with us to try again. If that doesn't work, we're  going to bring it before a group that we agree on, and we're going to let that  group tell us whether what I'm doing is inappropriate or not. So if you came to  me and said, Ford, the way you do that, that is disrespectful. And I said to you,  Darren, I don't believe that, therefore I'm not going to change my behavior. Well  then the group may look and say, Darren, this is your issue. None of us find it  disrespectful. Or they may look at me and say, Ford, you may have a blind spot,  but that's completely disrespectful and it's inappropriate. Well, whoever they say  that to now has a couple of choices. They can apologize, you know, we teach six steps to an apology, or they can leave the group. But what we found Darren in  this process, is that while we say go one on one, which is what Jesus says to do we don't. Most people aren't taught how to go one on one. And the one thing we  hear over and over again about transformational leadership, you know,  relactional leaders, is that you've gone beyond the what and the why, and you're actually giving us the how. And so we have found that when someone goes one  on one, and they have these four things in place, they go in humility, which  means I may be wrong, they go in pre forgiveness. Now you can't go in humility  and tell someone I forgive you, because if you say I forgive you, that means  you're wrong. But it's a place of the heart. In other words, I'm going in to restore  the relationship and to help the two of us, and that's pre forgiveness. Number  three, they go in love or care. In other words, I care more about you, Darren,  than I do how you feel about me. Just in case, I'm right. Could I share something with you? I may be wrong. I may be the only person in the world that feels this  way. That's humility. Can I share it with you, just in case I'm right? See, that's  love. What if I am right? It's affecting your you know, your your spouse, your  marriage, your children, your family, all your co workers. I'm willing to take that  risk because I care more about you than I care about how you care about me.  And the fourth one is to go with 100% of the truth, because sometimes the truth  and the facts are not the same. And if you just go with one without the other, you may find that you never get to a resolution. But when you go with truth and facts, and you go in humility, pre forgiveness, love and truth, way over 95% of the  time, the conflict is resolved in one meeting. It's 

Darren Shearer - funny how intuitive this all sounds, but I can only imagine  when you went into this company that, and I've read the the account of you  know how it went down, but people don't, you know, they're not. They're not  

used to that, to say the least, that it just seems so foreign that these things are  actually going to be be put in place. I mean, was that the reaction that you got,  especially in a very dysfunctional organization, when you start to implement  these kinds of things? What has that experience been like? Well,  

Ford Taylor - it depends who brings us in. I personally, this is just me. I don't  require this of our whole team, but I personally won't go into a company or  organization unless I'm dealing with the CEO, you know, the top people,  because if the top people want to see this work, it's going to work. Now doesn't  mean that I won't do this training with other people, but if I'm going to go in and  consult, then I want the top people bought in, and so they buy in pretty quickly,  especially if they're broken, because what they're doing is not working, and  they're open to trying about anything. However, you're right that whole executive team When you're telling them, we're gonna go in humility, pre forgiveness, love  and truth, you can be pretty sure everybody on that team's not bought in on day  one, because they've been dealing with anger and resentment, typically, to get  in that kind of shape, that's what's been going on in that organization. Yeah,  

Darren Shearer - and then a follow up tool that you teach is the six step apology when you know that you're the one who's broken the covenant, that you now  have responsibility. What is that six step apology? Yeah, Darren,  

Ford Taylor - this is one of the things we get told from around the world, how  quickly marriages have been restored, children and parents, co workers. The fun part about these tools, Darren, is they not only work with the boss going down,  they work it teaches people how to what I call lead up, lead across and lead  down. So they can do it in every sphere. So they can lead with they can have  influence, because that's my definition of leadership. If you have influence with  at least one person that makes you a leader, and anytime two or more people  are in relationship, that makes an organization. And so this six step apology  works across all three levels in an organization, and it does have six steps to it.  And let's just say you came to me with something, and you are right, I did it. So  number one, the six step, works only if, if you know you're wrong, because if you have to put an if or a but in an apology, you just completely undid the apology. It  lost. It just lost its value. So let's just say you came to me and said, Ford, when  you did that, you know, I may be wrong. It may just be me. Did it. So you  approached me that way, and I looked at you and said, Wow, man, thanks for  sharing that with me. I've either had a blind spot or whatever, but and I would  say I did that, and I would restate it back, yes, I did that. Step number two is I 

was wrong, and when we say I was wrong, long enough, guess what? Typically,  that alone might get us to shift our behavior. But number three is I am sorry. And  if you'll notice, I didn't say I want to tell you I'm sorry, or I would like to apologize, because those are not apologies. It's I am sorry, or if you were raised in a home  that you were told you're a little sorry son of a gun, then just change that word to I apologize. So number one, I'm going to restate the offense. I'm going to say  

what I did. Number two, I'm going to say I was wrong. Number three, I am sorry.  And number four is, Will you forgive me? Or when you can? Will you forgive  me? And the reason we add the when you can is there are relationships where  one person has used the forgiveness card just to get out of the conversation.  They have no intentions of changing their behavior. But when you say when you can, will you forgive me, it puts it in a whole new perspective, especially when  you get to the fifth step. And I would say, and Darren, I give you permission to  hold me accountable, not to behave that way anymore. And then number six is,  is there anything else that I owe you an apology for? And so when you go  through all six of those steps, there's a sincerity that comes out. And when you  give someone you're in relationship with permission to hold you accountable,  remember, they're not accountable to hold you accountable. They have  permission to hold you accountable. And you really mean that, odds are you are  going to change your behavior. And that's what we call transformation. It's  something that's changed and the change sticks. That's what real transformation is,  

Darren Shearer - yeah, and I think again, that it could be easy for people to  underestimate the impact of of these tools, because these are the tools that  you're implementing at the highest level to turn around these massive  companies and that that so many I mean, when we were gathering the the  endorsements for this book. I mean, I'm thinking, I'm particularly thinking like,  you know, 8 10, endorsements. That's pretty good amount put in the front of the  book. But they just kept coming in again and again and again, and they were all  from, from leaders at very high levels, because these are the tools that have  made such a profound impact. And Ford knows all about theory of constraints  and a lot of the, you know, transactional side of turnaround companies, but that  was the thing that was so striking to me going through this book, is that these  are, these are just, I mean, the everyday life skills that people need to have, and that this is the bulk of what is turning around these organizations, you know,  from marriages to churches to to businesses. Another one that I love, that you  talk about Ford is the WADEL model. What's that one all about? Because I've  been using it lately, I love for you to teach that to our listeners,  

Ford Taylor - right? Well, what we encourage people is, if you have a model, to  actually have a meeting, a management meeting, if you have a model and even 

have dinner with your family, if you have a model that you meet someone the  very first time. I actually use this model even when I preach in churches on  Sunday morning, if they'll let me and the W means it's really simple. It's a  welcome and in the welcome part of the meeting, or whatever it is you're going  to be doing, you got a couple of options. One is, you might share something  good going on. You know, you and I did this before we even got on the podcast.  Second thing is, you might do an affirmation. You look at somebody and you tell  them something special about who they are, or maybe you thank somebody on  the team for something they did that everybody knows you appreciated, but  maybe you've never actually said it. And so in that W part, you spend a couple  of minutes sharing some good things that are going on in people's lives, doing  some affirmations. Then you get down to the A and that means, as a leader, you  ask a question. It might be in a management meeting. Hey guys, here is the  agenda for today. Is there anything else that's come up that anybody knows  about that may not be on here, and you may find that as the leader, the most  important topic of conversation could be what happened since you put the  agenda together, or it could be, hey, we're going to deal with that one next week. But when you ask questions, the things that people come into the room with that they have on their mind, it gives them a chance to get it off their mind. If you're a ministry leader or a pastor, you know, most of us, most of you, you open your  meetings with a prayer. I would encourage you to open it with the good things  and affirmations and then ask the question, are there any prayer needs in the  room? Because what happens is you're now engaging the whole room into the  prayer time. If you just pray or ask someone to pray, the one that's fully engaged is the one doing the praying. But there may be other things. And when you ask  those kinds of questions, if someone came in the room, let's just say  somebody's mother in law was put in the hospital. They're not before or on the  way to work, on the way to the meeting, they're going to be sitting there almost  the whole meeting thinking about that, not about what's going on in the meeting  itself. You know, I've coached a lot of sports teams from six years old to high  school seniors, varsity sports teams, and when you start your coaching practice  off that way, and they can share things, and especially with females, everything's connected to everything. And that's that's just the way their brain works, which is a good thing. The and they can say, you know, I made an A on my test, or  whatever it is, the good thing to get it off their mind. But if you ask, what did we  do last week in the game, that's really good. And what could we improve on and  you put something in your practice based on what they said, you can have a  whole lot better practice. But this is the way you engage everybody into your  meeting. And then you get to the D, which is, discuss what you came to. Discuss what did we come to the meeting for? And then the E is, we now empower  everybody in the meeting, everybody at the dinner table, you know, on what it is  they're going to do the rest of night, you know, okay, look at we're take a shower.

We're gonna get our homework done. I'm gonna go over here and work on a few emails. But if everybody has the expectation level set on what's gonna go on,  the stress goes way down, even in the home, same in a company. So we're  gonna leave knowing what everybody is empowered to do out of that meeting,  and some of it could be delegation, but we're just gonna call it empowerment for  now, because people will be empowered to go do it, and then the L is launch.  And launch means we're going to connect, maybe the empowerment or the  meeting with some word encouragement, encourage people to go out. Maybe  it's a poem, it could be a video, it could be a story, but different people in the  room might do the launch. It may not be the leader every time, but that's what  the W, A, D, E, L stands for, welcome, ask questions, discuss the agenda,  empower people and launch them. And  

Darren Shearer - again, this is not just a model that you would use for your  small group at your you know, your church group, but Ford uses this when he  talks about the when he introduces the concept of relactional leadership in the  book, he actually talks about how he uses this model with those bankers that  were on the verge of shutting down this company, and so in very high stress  environments, this model works, and You point out to be the kind of thing that  people could easily try to take advantage of, to manipulate people, but you're  using it. The key is to use it with the right heart, the right motivation. Yeah,  

Ford Taylor - we tell people that if you use the WADEL model to take advantage of people, they will eventually know. That's what you're doing. If you use it to  make a sales call, it might not work. If you use it to build relationships, then you'll probably make the sale. If you truly mean it to build the relationship. You know  the example you use, I mean the two bankers came in the room, and we know  who they were. They only send one of these guys to the room to take the keys  away from the company. That's the only reason he ever shows up. He is the  hatchet man. And you know, when they walked in, I immediately started trying to get to know them a little bit better and and try to figure it out. And and when it  came down to take the keys, I actually asked them, would you mind if I had a  conversation with you two without the owners in the room. And I asked the  owners, do you trust me? And and they were kind of like they said, Yes, but the  CFO wasn't that happy. And I actually they said, Yeah, we'll stay. And I said,  Could I ask you a question? And they said, Yes. I said, I understand that we  have now found another million dollar error on the books. I get that, but look at  how far this organization has come. And I said, you know, you told me about  your family a while ago. You told me about how you liked to deer hunt while ago. I just have a question for you. I mean, as far as they've come, knowing that  we've done this and how much more we can still do. You know, is today the right day to take their keys. If you had asked me for these keys six weeks ago, I 

would have thrown them to you. But why would you today? It just to help me. I  just want you to imagine 300 families out there that are not going to have a job  because you chose today to take the keys. I just want you to imagine that. And if you say, give them to you, I'm going to go out there and tell them to bring them  in and give them to you. I just don't understand why. Today is the day when, six  weeks ago, they were in way worse shape than we are today, and they told me  to get out of the room, but they see later, and I left, we came back in, and the  guy said, we are not going to take your keys. And when he left, the lady in the  room came up and said, I've never seen anybody not I've never seen that man  show up and walk out without the keys. What happened and so but my point is,  it really was about by a connection of relationship. You've got a family. I've got a  family that got families. And if you really think this is the right answer. I'm a  businessman. I'm going to go get the keys. I am with you all the way. And if  you'd asked six weeks ago, I would have completely understood, I just don't  understand the logic behind it today is how far as we've come. And so I  connected the logical look how much improvement they made with the  relational. What about these 300 families? If you're wrong, and we'll know the  answer within three or four weeks anyway. What's another three or four weeks  gonna hurt? But that's how you connect the two.  

Darren Shearer - And these principles and tools are all based on the Scripture.  You know, we brought in some of that foundation here in this interview, but you  know, you talked about without mentioning Matthew 18. You talked about a  Matthew 18 model of discipline, and that works in your company and and so  Ford this is, this is truly an incredible book as speaking of the WADEL model  and the L, which stands for launch, why don't you launch us out with a parting  piece of advice for our Christian business leaders today,  

Ford Taylor - yeah, if you're listening and you're a Christian, please know that  by very definition, that makes you a minister, that makes you a shepherd, that  makes you a pastor. The question is, where do you get your vocational income?  And so go, be that wherever you are, be that as a father, as a mother, as a  brother, sister, as a taxi driver, as a worker, as a dishwasher, whatever it is, go.  Go worship in all you do. Go. Make it about the Father, the Son and the Holy  Spirit. Let everything you do be your worship. That's what the Bible says. Let  everything you do be holy and pleasing to God. This is your true and proper  worship. So be encouraged. You don't have to quit what you do. Go to seminary, become a pastor. If God calls you to do that, please do it now to be able to do  that. Well, go get new knowledge, because new knowledge is what changes our  attitude, and a new attitude brings new behavior. And if enough of us, enough of  you inside of any organization have the same vision, going after the same  vision. We're going after the same one, pulling the rope the same direction, and 

we have a consistent behavior. We can shift the organization with as little as  three to 5% of an organization. So go be who God's called you to be. Go be who he's made you to be. Don't feel guilty over it, but go get the tools, ingredients  and behaviors that he would ask you to have to be able to be that in your  workplace.  

Darren Shearer - Well said, and this book, relactional leadership is now  available for purchase. Says a paperback, also as an ebook. Head out to  amazon.com you can get a copy of that if you're listening to this a week after the launch. You can also get it at transformlead.com and there are discounts for  purchases in bulk. And so you can take your entire group through this leadership team group at church. You know, I find in this, in this sphere of helping  Christians to integrate their faith into their business, is, is that there are people  at your church that are just thirsting for something like this. It's practical that has  a scriptural basis to it, and this would be a excellent resource to use in a format  like that. Ford, thank you so much for coming on today to know we're heading  into Thanksgiving. Your your wife and family, they're all out right now doing some some wedding shopping. So glad we got to get this this time here so you can  share with our listeners, but so phenomenal message Sure. Love you brother  and appreciate your time and expertise today.  

Ford Taylor - Love you too, Darren, and thank you for all you've done for me  and for all you're doing for your listeners and people around the world. You are a blessing, my friend.  

Darren Shearer - Hope you've enjoyed this episode. You can share your  feedback and get more information to help you partner with God at business and to cycle your coworkers, your company and your industry at  

theologyofbusiness.com the theology of business podcast is sponsored by airlift  marketing. It's a noisy world out there, and at the same time, it's never been  easier to reach a highly specific group of people with your message product,  service or cause through website development, social media management,  podcast management, Pay Per Click advertising campaigns and branding. Airlift  marketing helps businesses, nonprofits and authors to reach their target groups  with precision and get the highest return possible on their investments in  marketing, reach out to us @airliftmarketing.com to schedule a free 15 minute  marketing strategy consultation. Thanks for listening and keep partnering with  God in your business. 



Last modified: Wednesday, March 19, 2025, 10:32 AM