Darren Shearer - Welcome back to the theology of business podcast. I'm your  host, Darren Shearer, author of the marketplace Christian and marketing like  Jesus, and this is a show that helps marketplace Christians to partner with God  in business, to help you make disciples of your coworkers, your company and  your industry, give more teachings and interviews like the one you're about to  hear at theologyofbusiness.com On today's episode, we're joined by Henry  Kaestner, and we'll be discussing investing in faith driven companies. And I've  been looking for a guest like Henry for a while, and was finally referred to Henry. He's just the right guy to talk about. This actually referred by Dr John Mulford  Henry, who was a previous guest on the show. Henry, oh yeah, he's He's  incredible. Love what they're doing through the Regent Center for  Entrepreneurship. And Henry is a Managing Principal at sovereigns capital LLC,  which is a private equity fund helping faith driven entrepreneurs building great  businesses and both consumer and business software as a service, tech  enabled consumer goods and services and healthcare technology, and not only  in the US, but also in Southeast Asia. And it seems a lot of that's happening in  Indonesia. Is that right?  

Henry Kaestner - That's right, that's right. A good amount of our investing  happens in both Singapore and Indonesia. About a about a third of our  investments are there, okay?  

Darren Shearer - And, and to date, and this may be a little bit outdated, you've  invested in 34 companies. Is that  

Henry Kaestner - right? No, so just slightly out of date, it's 36 companies. 36  

Darren Shearer - Okay, and he's the co founder and previous CEO and then  Chairman of bandwidth.com a company that, together with his business partner,  David Morgan, he has grown this company to $250 million in revenue and the  values of bandwidth.com have always been faith, family, work and fitness in that  order, and they were the fourth fastest growing privately held company in the  country, from 03 to 07 and welcome to the theology of business podcast. Henry,  

Henry Kaestner - Darren. It is great to be with you. Thanks for having me.  Thanks  

Darren Shearer - for making time out for this so. So how did you first of all make this discovery that God wanted to be involved in businesses of all places?  

Henry Kaestner - Well, I think that, you know, I, from my perspective, I knew  that God wanted to be involved in my life, yeah, and in all aspects of my life, and

for me, as we started bandwidth together, as I started together with David, we  wanted to be really intentional about our culture, and so we knew that our  culture needed to mirror who we wanted to be as individuals. And for both of us,  faith was the most important thing. That was the most important thing in our  lives, and we want to make sure that our business culture reflected that, first  then faith, then family, then work, and then fitness, as you pointed out, and I  think that God wants to be involved in everything that we're doing. I think we  have this incredible opportunity, gift and blessing, if you will, to participate in the  work that he's doing in the world. And that's why I think he cares about business, because I think he cares about us, and I think he cares about, I think he cares  about all aspects of society, but business is absolutely a big part of that. I think  that we're created in the image of a creative God that works six days a week.  And, you know, we also hear from scripture that his work continues to this day.  So he owns all things. Is in all things and and we have an opportunity as Christ  followers to bring to the altar all of our gifts, and for me and for David and many  others, of course, those particular gifts are in business and thinking about things like intellectual property or growing a business. For others, it's the arts and  others, it's sports. But we see God in everything we do, so I think he cares about it all. But yes, absolutely business.  

Darren Shearer - So, so you made this discovery that God wanted to be  involved in business, and then you took that to a number of different industries.  But then, then you started bandwidth.com so in the earliest stages, what was  the evidence that bandwidth.com was a Christian led company as you were  building it Well, I think that  

Henry Kaestner - I don't know about evidence so much as intentionality. I was a new follower of Christ as we started being with David. Was a lifelong believer.  His grandfather was a was an evangelist in Asia. Terrific man. We wanted to  have, we want to have an intentionality about being able to bring all of ourselves to our work, to include our faith. And that was the case from the from the  absolute get go. So I don't think that there's any point in time where we looked  and said, Wow, this is a Christian life business, but there was a point in time and in both of our lives, when we looked at each other and knew that we had a new.  Identity, and that the most important thing to us was knowing and enjoying God.  And so it was a Christian led business from the very beginning. But, you know,  you mentioned something, I think it's important to point out, I don't think that  there there are Christian businesses, and that's not what you suggested. There  are Christian led businesses. And so whenever anybody accepts the gift that's  been given them, acknowledges that God created the world and and gave us  this incredible gift of life and now and forever through the death of his son, to  atone for our sins. Whenever that happens, then we know that we're a Christ 

follower. Then we're then we know that if we're competing in sports, we know  that we're a Christ following baseball player, or we're a Christ following violinist,  or in our case, we're a Christ following business guys. And so that was from the  very beginning.  

Darren Shearer - So you took that experience, and there were some needs that you saw, that that Christian entrepreneurs have, that are unique to maybe some, some entrepreneurs that that's not really at the forefront or the center of their  lives. So how and why did Sovereign's capital begin?  

Henry Kaestner - Sovereign's capital began is, I'd like to think any good  entrepreneurial project does by trying to trying to solve a problem, and the  problem that we're trying to solve was that we knew there are lots of faith driven  entrepreneurs in the marketplace, people that are very serious about their faith,  but we also knew that there wasn't a fund that was focused on coming alongside those entrepreneurs and investing in them, investing in them personally and  then also financially. And a lot of that was born out of the experience we had  early at bandwidth. You see, when David and I started the company, we went  through a couple of years of pivots, as many entrepreneurs were doing. We had  we spent through some money that we had earned from some prior efforts. But  as we realized that we had a business to grow and that there was something  that God was doing through it, we we thought that we should invest in and and  lots of growth. We went out as so many good entrepreneurs will do up and down Sand Hill Road in Menlo Park and here in California and and try to raise money.  We would not talk about our faith on the first visit, typically, and we didn't have  fish on our business cards, but we would during a second or third meeting, talk  about our culture, and we tell them that we're doing a business for the glory of  God, and we talk about, you know, the family part, and we talk about fitness  part, but we'd make it really clear that that we were serious about honoring God  in the workplace. I'd like to think we did that winsomely. If you were to interview  some of the VCs, maybe they thought we were over the over the top. Hopefully  we weren't. Hopefully, we did it as we're told to, to do it with gentleness and  respect and relationship, but we, and we also took great pains to saying, Listen,  you know, we want to hire the very best person for the job. This is not meant to  be a holy huddle. This is meant to be a business that will compete and win. But  you may notice that when we do board meetings, we'll do things like pray and  we'll pray in Jesus's name. And just want to make sure you're comfortable with  that. Well, we went over 40 in venture raises. And I think really, in a best case  scenario, we were misunderstood a bit as we talked about that. And I think in a  worst case scenario, I think we may have been prejudiced against now, to be  clear, there are other reasons to not invest in our business, other legitimate  business reasons to not invest in our business. So I don't want to present a story

that makes it look like there is this widespread persecution that David and I had  to endure because of our faith. I don't think that's the case, but I tell you one  thing it did give us an impression of which is that venture capital and institutional investors don't really know what to make of a faith driven entrepreneur  completely and and that left an impression on us. So we came to understand as  bandwidth continued to succeed. And of course, Faith driven businesses that  are intentional about honoring God in the workplace can do very well. And two,  our hypothesis was that institutional investors didn't really know what to make of  that, and it may cause more questions for them than answers. And so what  would it look like to have a fund that believes that transformation happens in the  marketplace and believes that when you come alongside a young entrepreneur  to encourage them in the pursuit of God, and what it looks like down a guy in the workplace that really need things can happen in culture and society, and also  believing that as they work out their faith in the business environment and try to  understand what does it look like to love on partners and vendors and  customers and employees in a way that points to something greater than the  manufacturing distribution of widgets, that that could be a really powerful force  to take hold of so we we started sovereigns to come alongside those folks, to do life with these 36 entrepreneurs that we've invested in, to encourage them and  to be clear, 90% of what we talked to them about are things like intellectual  property and channels to market and capitalization and and comp plans and  things like that. But we take pains twice a year to make sure that we're talking to them about the things we can be praying for them about, and then to sit down  and go through an intentional spiritual integration plan where we talk about  things like, how are you doing in your in your walk with the Lord? Are you  spending time in a small group? Are you a member of a local worshiping  community, member of local church. How do you how do you think about the  biblical message of generosity, things like that? So we saw? The shorter answer your question is, as as any entrepreneur will do, we saw a need and an  opportunity in the marketplace that we could fit and through the grace of God,  has worked out really well, going back to  

Darren Shearer - some of those conversations with some of those VCs when  you were raising funds. Was there some some statements that stood out, or  some encounters that stood out where they were just maybe voicing some of  their concerns, specifically about the faith component, or did they just kind of  cloak it and, you know, we're just not sure about all that. They think maybe  you're like, like a humanitarian organization or something like that. I mean, what  were some of their concerns that were expressed  

Henry Kaestner - Well, only once did it come back through secondhand that an  investor was concerned about our faith and whether we can make sound 

business decisions, whether Christ followers can make sound business  decisions, whether they know how to fire somebody and let people go, whether  they really view their work as something that's nine to five and their real job  begins when they leave work at five o'clock and volunteer At a local ministry,  and so we heard that once, and I don't want to overstate again, the fact that we  found any type of persecution. I just think that we were really just just  misunderstood people just didn't understand how we view that as such a  powerful thing about who we were and who we are, and saw that as something  that was really this driving force that is, we sought to bring God glory in the  marketplace, that we saw it as our greatest advantage, and we never said it that way. I mean, we, when we put together a PowerPoint and said in front of a  venture capitalist, we never said our secret sauce is the Holy Spirit or anything  like that. But we came to understand that, you know, we wanted to be able to  bring on board a partner that got what made us tick and and everybody, every  leader, has a why of what they do. And there's some great research from  Christensen and Sinek and Jim Collins and others that talks about the why of  what you do. Yeah, and we wanted to find an investor that got why we did what  we did. And I think, in fairness to the investors, I think that they wanted to invest  in a company where they could identify with their why, and so they had lots of  other entrepreneurs that would be able to present to them different opportunities on businesses where they could really understand what drove an entrepreneur.  And they wanted to invest in something they felt comfortable in and that they  knew and they didn't know us. And I think that it created a I think that that  created a barrier. And in retrospect, of course, I'm very, very grateful that we  didn't go one for 40. It gave us an opportunity to be able to have complete  ownership of the company, through to taking bandwidth public. And while we did  bring on some board, some other friends and family investors and give a lot of  money in terms of stock options and others, Dave and I were able to control the  business and control the culture in a way that I'm grateful for, and we had,  through the grace of God, lots and lots of growth between both bandwidth and  Republic Wireless, which is a company we spun out of bandwidth  

Darren Shearer - and you really didn't have institutional funding when you were  the fourth fastest growing privately held company, right from 03 to 07.  

Henry Kaestner - That's right, that's right. So we were, we were able to grow  really, really quickly, but  

Darren Shearer - you were still trying. You were still actively pursuing the funds.  You just weren't getting them. But nonetheless, you were still growing the  company. Is that right? 

Henry Kaestner - Yeah, we never took in any growth capital never took any  money to grow the business. We did take money in from an institutional investor  about 10 or 12 years in to help us make a real strategic acquisition, and a great  investor came in and helped us, and then very much understood our culture.  Now, we were well established by then, but we brought on board a great  investor. Help us do that, but we never raise any money for growth capital. And  so God was very gracious to us. We were able to grow very quickly, and we're  able to do it without outside capital.  

Darren Shearer - Gotcha. And so you didn't even start pursuing the funding until about 07.  

Henry Kaestner - No, no, we started. We were pursuing funding as early as a  01 02, okay, just we were very unsuccessful. And then four or five years into it,  we went back in again and got very, very close with the private equity shop that  taken a $20 million investment, and then that just that, that failed. So we never  

were successful in a growth capital raise. And we tried it for. For five, six, maybe seven years. Most of that, though, was about two years into it. So the end of a  01 and 02.  

Darren Shearer - And do you feel like, in retrospect, that that God really spared  you from getting yoked with the wrong investors, you know, because in business there you're really entering a covenant when you're taking on funding like that,  where there's going to be certain expectations on both sides, and when the  person or the company doesn't have your value system, then that can it's like  Paul talks about being unequally yoked, right? Is that the way that you tend to  look at it?  

Henry Kaestner - Yeah, I do think that God spared us, that I think that I don't  spend a lot of time reflecting on that part of it. What I do spend time reflecting on is really the difference between being willful and faithful and Too oftentimes in  my work life, even, of course, after being in Christ father, I found that a lot of my  activities have been willful. And there's some great Bible examples on this. And  my partner David has some great commentary about just different, different  biblical leaders that you see that end up being willful at different times in  leadership. You know, Saul was willful at times. He didn't wait on Saul. David,  you can be willful in in an activity, you can be willful and inactivity. You know  David, when all the kings were going off to war, David stayed behind. We were  being willful when we tried to and not faithful. We were praying that we'd walk  out of a meeting with the $20 million term sheet. We weren't praying that God's  will would be done. And so I think that the big lesson that God taught me on that  is that it's really important to be faithful to seek God first and his plan for your 

business. And yeah, to an extent that he saved us from us from being unequally  yoked. Yes, I think that there is absolutely and I think that it is important, you  know, for a long time, a young entrepreneur come to me and say, you know,  should I I'm considering going into business. I want to do it with a partner, which  we love. We love the idea of partnerships with most of the companies we invest  in have partnership, and they said, you know, we'd love to do that. But can I, you know this guy, enough for business school or something like, that's not a  believer. Can I start the business with them? And I historically had said yes, but  as I came to understand, you know, as convicted my my time in Scripture  coming across, the passage about being unequally yoked like, Oh, my  goodness, of course, you can't, you can't you spend more time with your work  partner than you do oftentimes, with your wife. And you need to really be able to  have, if you want to be intentional about bringing God's glory in the marketplace, you need to have your business partner as aligned as you are on that. So I think I strongly encourage people now not to start a business along somebody who  doesn't get and resonate with the why they do what they do. And that I think is  important for Christ followers. I think it's important for any type of business that's run by any type of faith, you ultimately need to be able to resonate and be  partners in the deepest part of what makes somebody tick. And you need to be  able to identify with that so that when things get really, really hard, you can kind  of go back to first doors and say, what are we trying to do here again? And who  to whom do we go to to look for our solace and our inspiration? And if you can't  get, you know, have somebody who gets who you are and be willing to get down on their knees with you, then pray to this almighty God that he might give you  favor and deliverance. You're stuck. And, you know, there are times in an  entrepreneurial journey is dark and is hard and is long. And if you can't, you  know, do that journey with somebody who also understands Psalm 23 you're in  trouble.  

Darren Shearer - And is, I mean, they're really if you're an entrepreneur, aside  from Sovereign's capital, there really aren't that many places for people to turn  who are looking for venture funding that also want to make sure that the firm has a shared value system with them. So what? What do you say to entrepreneurs  that are pursuing funding? I mean, you guys are as a lot more startups out there that are getting funded than than the, you know, the 36 which is obviously a lot  for a VC firm of any, you know, of any kind, but there's so many more  companies, and many of those are Christian founders. What do you say to  Christian entrepreneurs that are that are pursuing funding, and how important is  it to have a and have investors that not just take the money and take the good  kind of worldly advice, but to also make sure that you have that faith in common. 

Henry Kaestner - Yes, yes. So here's way I think about it. To be very clear, I 

think that it's important that if you have a partner in the business, it's very, very  important that you are equally yoked with them. Very, very important. I do. Not  feel the same way about having an investor. And you would think that being a  

fund that invests in faith driven entrepreneurs, that I would have more strong  opinions on that. But I don't. I think that any business, man or woman that are  out there, an entrepreneur seeking funding, has an opportunity to bring God,  honor and glory in the marketplace with an intentionality, whether they have a  faith driven, Faith driven funders behind them or not. And I think that it may be  preferable for some people to have an investor that strapped to the mass with  them and on a board with them that gets what they do. But I wouldn't, so say, I  absolutely wouldn't use my position to tell an entrepreneur that that's something  that they absolutely have to seek out, because can we there just aren't enough  funds and investors out there that do that. But what I would say is this, I would  say that is really important that anybody that you take money from that's going  to have a role in the business, in terms of being an advisor or any way really  having skin in the game, and I use the metaphor, strapped in the mask, but it's  just people that are really in it with you. I think it's really important that they  understand why you do what you do, and I think you need to talk about that up  front. And I don't think that you I don't think that the first meeting is oftentimes  the right place to talk about that. I think that investors come in to try to try to  understand a business opportunity and understand whether the business  opportunity, but as they come to know you, it's really important. And I think that  it's it would be difficult to be able to have conversations like, I think we need to  hire a corporate chaplain or something along those lines. If your investors don't  know again, what your intentionality is, and that's a common mistake I see. I see a lot of entrepreneurs out there who don't have the don't feel comfortable in  praying with non believing employees, or don't feel comfortable in the concept of chaplaincy. And those are two of the most common mistakes I see startups  make, and and their mistakes that we made at bandwith. You know, it took me  seven or eight years. Now, everybody knew why we did what we did at  bandwidth. Everybody knew that Dave and I were motivated by our Christian  faith, but it took me seven or eight years to be able to pray with non believe  employees. And I should have done that day one, because it's universally  thought as being somebody showing love for somebody that you're in  relationship with. I've never had anybody offended by that. And then chaplaincy.  Chaplaincy is really important. You know, all the major sports teams have  chaplains, and most of the major sports teams are owned by secular owners.  Why do they have chaplains? They want to get the best performance out of their employees. And so I think it's really important that an entrepreneur is able to talk to an investor about what makes them tick and what their driving forces are, so  that when a decision is made a couple years down the road to hire a corporate  chaplain, the investor sees that it's completely consistent with what the 

entrepreneur is looking to do. I think it also is important to talk to an investor  about what does it mean and what doesn't it mean to work your faith out in the  workplace. I think that in a conversation should likely have to do include things  like, how you think about firing people, how you think about loving people well  as you let them go. I think it should probably include things like, what does it  look like for us to hire people who don't have our faith background or don't who  have different social aspects of their lives that maybe would not align with how  we think that God created things at bandwidth, we always hired the best person  for the job, but if we don't have that type of conversation with an investor, then  they're left to kind of think an extremist view. So Boy, that's a long winded way of saying, I think it is completely fine to take on board non believing investors. I  think it's preferable to bring somebody on board strapped to the mess that gets  what makes you tick, and that can go ahead and pray with you when you go  through difficult times. And that's why it's absolutely essential that your full time  partner gets that. It's just preferable that your investor is that way. And many  businesses can be very God honoring with secular investors coming in or  people that don't have a faith, but it's important that they have a good  conversation about culture and what makes a leader tick, and that in the  entrepreneurs got to be willing to have somebody walk away from making an  investor, because they just don't get they just don't get it.  

Darren Shearer - Yeah, I'll stop there. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like it's one of  those, like Paul said it's one of those things that's permissible to take on an  investor like that, but not always profitable from from God's standpoint. But  there, but there certainly are. They're just not enough, I think because, as I said  at the beginning of this interview, I've really searched for a long time to find  somebody like yourself to interview on this topic, and there just weren't a whole  lot of people. There weren't a whole lot of organizations like what you guys are  doing. I. So we certainly need, need more of that. But that's great advice for  those, for those young entrepreneurs, and anyone who is is considering  becoming going after venture funding. So you mentioned the the chaplaincy  conversation. You mentioned the the how do you fire somebody as a Christian?  How do you? How do you, how do you do some of these different things people  don't always do. They always come to you like that. Or do you find yourself in  really a disciple making role with your portfolio company founders to help them  understand how to follow God's plan in these different aspects of their business.  Well,  

Henry Kaestner - I spent a lot of time talking about the different mistakes we  made at bandwidth and in terms of hiring and firing people. I think that one of  the we try to I've got a talk I give, which is the, I guess, the 20 lessons that God  taught us a bandwith. And in each one of them is is each one of the lessons is 

couched in Scripture. And the in the passage, of course I use for firing  somebody is Love your neighbor as yourself. And so if you fire somebody and  they're surprised you haven't loved them, one of the most important things you  can ever do for your organization is make sure that you have the right people on the bus with you. And I think a lot of people miss this. That a lot of people miss.  Really what is important about what a leader does. A leader is supposed to set  the strategy in mission. They're supposed to make sure that there's resources  and they get the right people on the bus. And a lot of times I mentioned that  because a lot of times entrepreneurs get distracted by doing other get distracted by doing other things. They're busy selling, or they're busy doing something  else. If you're you really need to just be doing those three things. Otherwise,  you're supposed to get people on the bus to do those things. That also means,  of course, getting people off of the bus that aren't the right people on the bus.  And for us, we've had lots and lots of people over the years that have, we've  had to let go. And of course, in our portfolio companies, there are lots of people  that need to be let go, and it's really important to be able to love them well by  helping them to understand that it's just not a good fit at the company. But what  is really important is make sure that they're never surprised. So what we do is  we counsel our companies to make sure that they sit down with their employees that they think are not performing, and to let them know that, and then give them opportunity to cure and so if sales person is not performing, say, Listen, things  aren't going well. You're not doing as well on the job as we'd hoped, and you've  got 45 days to be able to get back to what our expectations are for you, and if  not, then we're gonna have to talk about whether this is the right long term fit for  you. And that happens. It's easy with salespeople, because there's a quota, but  it's, you know, it happens in product. It happens in engineering. And having  ongoing communications with communication with people is really important,  having a healthy relationship. And so if you've hired somebody again, I'll say it  again. If you hire some fire somebody and they're surprised you failed, you  haven't loved them well, but you have to get the right the wrong people off the  bus, and that's oftentimes the best way to love on the people that have that stick around. Can't tell you how many times people will come to me from a group and  saying, Thank you for letting that person go. It just wasn't the right fit. Was  holding our work, our team, our teamwork back. And then also, on rare  occasion, you get the person who you've let go who comes back to you and  says, Listen, I want to thank you for the way that you let me go. Let me know.  And I want you to know I've got, you know, something else is great and and I'm  I'm doing well, but you treated me really well while I was there, right up until the  time that you let me go. That doesn't always happen. You wish it happened  every time, but it does happen enough to help reinforce how important it is that  we love on the people we're letting go. Well 

Darren Shearer - well said. And one of the many areas of of discipleship  opportunity that you have with your with your portfolio company founders, and  certainly for those founders then to to go and share Christ with their own the  people in their own companies. So Henry, as we wrap it up here, I'm curious,  and I know that there's at least one entrepreneur that's listening to this who is  thinking about approaching your company, Henry, and they want us. They want  to find out if, if, maybe their company is they if they have what it takes to  become one of your portfolio companies, what would you say to somebody that  is, what? Who are you looking for? What are the types of businesses founders  that you looking for? So,  

Henry Kaestner - great question, and the sad answer to this is that we end up  being really limited with the types of companies we invest in, because we like  investing in things we know well. So we invest in software as a service, and  consumer goods and services, and then also in healthcare, and we tend to  invest in companies that have. Uh, real traction. They already are set up and  going and they have product market fit. We love companies that have shown  that they can delight customers. And a way for us to look at that a lot of times is  just to really understand things like churn by cohort, you know, looking at the  different slices of groups of customers you brought on board, what it costs to  bring them on board, and how many of them have stuck with you over time? And we look at that and see how that's trended. And so as a result of that, we we  have to say no to a lot of companies that are really early, even though they have great ideas and even though they're run by great people, because it's just one of the things we look at. And there are a ton of regions that we don't invest in.  There are a whole bunch of industries we don't invest in and then, but it has to  be a fit with somebody that we can see who is really driven and intentional about their their their their faith. Really important that they're really driven about their  faith. They want to bring God glory in the marketplace. That's really important.  We also need to make sure that it's a type of person that we can see  shepherding the company and executing. We look a lot at the person, but we  end up saying no to a lot of great people at the same time. You know, the worst  part of my job, by far, is having to say no to 99 out of 100 people. They come in  looking for funding, and that's really frustrating. It's frustrating, especially for me.  One of the reasons we started this up is we wanted to be a net encouragement  to faith driven entrepreneurs, and yet we're a net discouragement to a great  number of them. And so we're actually starting an initiative this year called the  faith driven entrepreneur, and we get a placeholder website called  Faithdrivenentrepreneur.org but we're going to come out with just a bi weekly  newsletter just about things that we're seeing, about way guide is working  through companies and some of the lessons we've learned along the way, with a hope that we might be able to be an encouragement to some of them, just like I 

think you're being with this podcast. So with this person, we'd love to talk to  them, and hopefully there is a fit. You know, the most important thing about a  venture capital fund is deal flow. You're only as good as the deals that you get a  chance to invest in, which means you're only as good as the deals you get a  chance to look at. So thanks for thinking of us with that. And love to talk to them, and hopefully some way, either by our time we spend with them at sovereigns or through some of the things, hopefully we can serve them within the faith driven  entrepreneur, we might be some net encouragement to them and what God is  doing through their life.  

Darren Shearer - That sounds like a great initiative. I did check out that website. When is that going to be launching?  

Henry Kaestner - February one? Oh, okay, really excited about it. And love your love to get your feedback and your input. And as with anything I've ever done in  life, the first iteration or second iteration, if not been great, but I've decided to do  it anyway, and then, and with time, things get better and better. And so, Darren,  

I'd love your I'd love your feedback. I'd love the feedback from any of your the  folks that that follow you in your podcast. And the other thing I'd love to do is, as  we launch that, as you see different podcast episodes or different work that  you've done that you think is really exemplary and good encouragement to a  wider audience. I'd hope that you'd send those so that we've got a group of guys that are going through content and helping us come up with things that we're  going to release in the newsletter. And so I'd love to be able to hear more from  your podcast and the work that you're doing and and and in Texas and beyond.  Well,  

Darren Shearer - I'm happy to share it, Henry. I want to be respectful of your  time. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing and the passion that  you're bringing to making disciples in the workplace and and and just bringing  God glory through the business world. And may God continue to bless all of your companies, all of your everything you put your mind to your family. And thanks  again for your time,  

Henry Kaestner - Darren, it was a great honor and privilege. And so I asked the  same for you and blessings on your work and your ministry and your expanding  family, and then also for your listeners, that they'll find God's pleasure in work as they get out there and create in our winsome witness to this almighty God who  

loves us all. So thank you.  

Darren Shearer - Hope you've enjoyed this episode. You can share your  feedback and get more information to help you partner with God at business and

to cycle your coworkers, your company and your industry. At  theologyofbusiness.com the theology of business podcast is sponsored by airlift  marketing. It's a noisy world out there, and at the same time, it's never been  easier to reach a highly specific group of people with your message, product,  service or pause through website development, social media management,  podcast management, Pay Per Click advertising campaigns and branding. Airlift  marketing helps businesses, nonprofits and authors to reach their target groups  with precision and get the highest return possible on their investments in  marketing. The. Reach out to us@airliftmarketing.com to schedule a free 15  minute marketing strategy consultation. Thanks for listening and keep partnering with God in your business. 



Last modified: Thursday, March 20, 2025, 2:00 PM