Video Transcript: Ordination, Endorsement, and Public Trust

Henry - Henry and Tom back, and so today we're going to talk about ordination  endorsement and public trust. And it's fascinating. I've looked at through CLI  journey and why ordination is important and all that. And now you were with the  military for all these years. Today, we're gonna talk about ordination and public  trust. So what has been some of your experience? Let's talk about a story that's  sort of challenging in ordination, like some people will just quickly go online and  get an ordination.  

Tom - Yeah, one of the things is, when an institution picks you to be their  chaplain, they are assuming that you're a person of integrity, that you're a  person of spirituality, and that you are well trained to do the work that you have  volunteered or getting paid to do. You are a professional. I've had some of our  volunteers, and I always referred to them as professional chaplains, and they  said, I don't get paid to be a chaplain. And I said, No, you don't, but you are a  professional because you have followed an academic program, you have  learned the things that you need to do. So you're not just some person walking  in off the street, you you have a background that the organization can put trust in you. Because of that, even in the military, we sometimes had people who would  apply to become military chaplains who hadn't gone to school. And there are  places I won't give you their names because I don't want to give them any  business, but there are places where I received a transcript from an applicant.  So this person was applying to become a military chaplain. This person sent me  all their stuff and the name of the seminary just seemed a little off, right? It was a very common name of a religious institution, but the address was a PO box,  right? Yeah. So I went on the website. I said, my name is Tom. I've been in  ministry for X number of years. I would really like to get a doctor of Doctor of  theology degree, and within hours, I got a phone call from someone saying, If  you give us X number of dollars, and it was only a few $100 we will award you  with a doctor of theology degree. You can pick your GPA, and we will send you a transcript, a transcript with all the classes that you took. And I said, I didn't take  any of these classes. And they said, Well, you sent us your resume that shows  all the work you've done in ministry over the past 10 years, and we're going to  count that. And I said, but I didn't send you a resume, and they said, Well, we  know that if you've been a pastor for 10 years, you've probably preached X  number of sermons, so we're going to give you a preaching and worship class  and then an advanced preaching and worship class and a master's degree  preaching and worship class, just based on the work you've done. And I kept  saying, but I haven't done any of this work. And finally they hung up on me after  they lowered the price twice, I went home and told my wife, you know, all this  money I spent on to go to seminary and to get my Doctor of Ministry, I could  have gotten all this for $200 from this institution. But what happens is people out there know that those kind of places exist, yeah, and so people tend to be 

suspicious. Oh, so you got a certificate, you got a ordination. That only means  as much as people's trust in that organization has  

Henry - well, and that's where Christian leaders Institute. And Christian Alliance,  we struggle because, because there's scammy organizations out there where  people for $200 or whatever, can get their credentials here Christian leaders  Institute. The classes are free, so automatically strike one looks like a spammy  institution until you actually get involved. Oh, my goodness, this is a lot of work.  The second thing is, the credentials are. We have fees because we have actual  staff who check all the references and all of that stuff, because our goal is, how  do we mobilize you so we go through the whole accreditation journey with the  US, Department of Education, almost, because we're faced with these scammy  organizations. But you who are here at CLI know, wow, you're up late into the  night study. This is not scammy. It's just a place of opportunity, but you're  bringing. Up this issue is  

Tom - that important? It's very important, and it's important to the credibility of  every chaplain. Yes, because if one person shows up with fake credentials and  hasn't actually gotten the training, inevitably, they're going to do something that  is going to reflect poorly on all other chaplains, and it's going to make the job  much more difficult for all the rest of us.  

Henry - You know, in a lot of ways, we feel that way about you. You know many  of you are in financial situations that are very difficult. Maybe you're a single  mom, maybe you're a retiree. Now you can't go on to get a bachelor degree or  get professional training at a traditional institution that charges a lot. So you're  doing this online correspondence courses. You know how difficult they are, but  What's difficult is you know you may not in your heart think you know, is this  real? Because I'm not paying $4,000 $10,000 and because you've been  conditioned that it in so in this case, that's going to be your challenge, that in  your heart, there's a different shift that I am going to pour myself into this training because it's the right thing to do, and I need those credentials that are based in  study,  

Tom - and you're going to know the first time you show up at your chaplaincy  role, and there's a situation that comes up, you're going to be equipped to deal  with it, at least to get started in dealing with it, which you would not have if you  bought a degree online. My dad used to joke about, you know, send in $2 and  some Box Tops from your cereal, and we'll give you a degree, right? That that  doesn't prepare you for anything. And the work that you do as a chaplain, the  work that you will do as a chaplain, is way too important to just wing it as you're  going along. It's, too complicated to do that 

Henry - well, and it really comes down. Is why trust matters. Chaplains serving  sacred and high stake moments, right? So we have just mentioned that people  ask, who are you? Are you trained? Can you be trusted? Ordination,  endorsement, public trust. Answer those questions. So this whole process is  serious  

Tom - because it's it's serious work that God is calling us to do  

Henry - biblical ordination. So in Acts 6, early leaders were chosen,  commissioned by the laying on of hands. In Acts 13, Paul and Barnabas  commissioned with prayer and fasting. Ordination is a spiritual and communal  calling confirmed by the church. Let's talk about, first of all, biblical ordination.  

Tom - Well, one of the things is the first one there talks about people didn't just  wake up one morning and say, I'm going to become a leader in the church.  Right? The church recognized things in those individuals and said, You have you have a gift. You have been gifted by God, you have been empowered by the  Holy Spirit to do these things. So the choosing and the commissioning was part  of a longer process where people observed their work, they saw what kind of  people they were, they saw their integrity, and they said, This is the person we  want to represent this body and the same that same thing happens often in  chaplaincy, where you've been a member of an organization for a while, people  see you, they observe you, they listen to you. They see how you react in times  of crisis, and they say, that's the kind of person we would like to have. And then  when you add that calling from the from the organization to some training to help you do it. So you're not going in unarmed, so to speak, but you're you're ready,  that puts you in a great position to be able to do the work that the organization  and God have called you to do.  

Henry - You know, in so many ways, too, we get this, like the early church, it was a serious matter and and even, like, the calling of those first deacons, in a lot of  ways, those that's like a chaplain calling. The preachers, the people on the pulpit 

are the apostles, and there's this need. That's the Greek and the Roman, sorry,  the Greek and the Hebrew widows. So it's like the apostles, those first deacons,  in a lot of ways, are chaplains, so to speak. How we would define it, you know,  they were going to sojourn with these widows, but also all that concept of  integrity in the in the laying on of hands, all of that made it a process. And I feel  that way about Christian leaders. Institute is if you just want to come here and  get some quick credential, you. Please leave. This is about I take this calling  very seriously, 

Tom - and I think the calling confirmed by the church bullet there is so important  that it's not just Tom didn't wake up one morning and say, I think I want to be a  chaplain, and I think God is calling me to be a chaplain. That did happen, but at  the same time, the church that I was a part of said, We believe you have the  gifts to do this. And we're going to confirm that when we have people in our  auxiliary Chaplain program, a volunteer group of people, we encourage them,  that when they are in the process, number one, their local church has to  recommend them for the position, but when they finish the process, we  encourage them to have a commissioning ceremony in their church so that the  members of their church make a commitment. We are going to pray for her. We  are going to support her. We're going to help her to do this job, because we feel  God and we are calling her to this position.  

Henry - It's interesting. We do the same thing at the Alliance. We have it where  you are, you have to be referenced, and as you even go further in our  ordinations, you have to have more references, more endorsements. And then  we have an entire commissioning service litany. Okay, that goes with these  roles, and it's that whole concept that you're bringing up is you're you are bathed in credibility. What does ordination mean today?  

Tom - And the word orient ordination in some groups, it's more familiar than in  others. Some churches talk about it as endorsement or a commission  ordination. I'm not real good at English language, but I would think there's  probably something about order that comes out of order,  

Henry - the word ordination. I remember when we were at Calvin seminary, they  would have the church order class, oh yeah, yeah, remember that, and  everything shall be done decently and in order.  

Tom - And that was our the favorite verses. But those four points in there are so  the individual has a sense of calling. Yes, I think God might be calling me to do  this. When you and I were called to seminary, we felt God might be calling us to  

do that. I never thought I was going to survive the formal training, because I  didn't think I could do it. But then I took the next step of doing some training and  got through the formal training. But at least in our tradition, there had to be a  public recognition of that. The church had to call us to ministry, and we've been  held accountable by the governing boards of our churches ever since, and it's  the same in ordination to chaplaincy on a different level, but you feel called. You  get trained an institution, an organization says we want you to serve as our  chaplain, and then you're accountable to that organization to do things  according to their rules, according to their regulations, the way they expect it to  be done. And hopefully, if you don't do the things the way that they want you to, 

they will sit down with you and say, This is what we expected of you. Please tell  us why that's not what's happening here.  

Henry - So just to explain how Christian leaders Institute does it. So you come  here, you sense an internal call. It's called the internal call. Now you've already  had and we've seen this some sort of external thing going on, meaning that  others have seen something in you. So now you're here, you're studying, then  we ask you to get referenced. So when you just start out, it's one reference.  Then when you go further in the next chaplaincy role, it's two references. Then if you go into next role, it's three references, endorsements. We have a whole  process. And when you actually order your credentials, you can be assured that  you've been through training, you've been recommended, but the organization is behind you. Now, if you disagree with the statement of faith, then you would not  align yourself here if you lived outside of good conduct doctrine and life, we  have a way in which people then will write us in an email alleging charges  against you that you're not living a certain way, and you will be instantly  removed from The directory. Okay, so now, again, it's very grassroots, and we've been doing this since 2014 and there's only been three people removed, which  we feel good about, yeah, but, but it's what you're talking about. We had that  when we grew up in the ministry. We were like in the Christian Reformed  denomination. They had a process, church order, we studied, we went into  ministry. Now what we're seeking do a Christian leaders and a Christian  reliance, is have that grassroots but the principles are still the same.  

Tom - We in the auxiliary program for the Coast Guard. It's a fairly new program, and after a couple of years, we started doing evaluations of all the chaplains,  and in that process, we removed some of the chaplains, interesting and the  institution, the leaders of our institution, the highest ranking people in the Coast  Guard, said we knew we could take this program seriously when you remove  people who are not performing up to the standards of the organization.  

Henry - Well, it's interesting. We'll have people who will study and they'll say, I  can't get that grade point average. Can you make an exception? We said no.  And they said, like, Well, why? I have the heart for this? And we say no. That  means, take the class again, study and then in sometimes, because we're a  school, we, we have the ability to look seriously at their studies, and we find, in  most cases, they're not taking it serious. So in some of them are academic.  Many of you may have been part of us where you think to yourself, oh, this is  free access classes, low cost program. It's going to be a breeze, and then you  hit the wall where you actually have to study. And then when you fail, some  people have failed, and then they right away say, Well, you know, let us take this

again? Well, I'm sorry you can't take that again because unless you have to wait six months, because, again, we're very serious that this is a serious thing.  

Tom - It is the you're going to find yourselves in situations where you don't want  to be there because someone made it easier for you to get there. You want to be there because you have done the work and you've learned the things that you  will then be able to use to address those situations.  

Henry - Comment a little bit on the power of endorsement.  

Tom - Maybe this is a little simplistic, but many of us have a pretty high opinion  of ourselves, which is not always a bad thing, but it's important to hear what  other people say for good or bad, and when it again. And I think I've mentioned  this before, when a hospital or a prison or a place of business is going to let you  in the doors and is going to give you access to the people there. They need to  know that you're a person of good character, that you have a calling to do this  kind of work, and you're prepared to do this because they're liable if anything  goes wrong. So they don't want to just hear what you think about your character, and calling. They want to know what people around you think of your character  and calling in the military, I've gone through the process a number of times of  getting my security clearances upgraded. Oh, interesting. And they literally go to people's houses, sit down with them for an hour and talk to them about me, and  they ask all sorts of questions about all sorts of things. Now that's a different  kind of situation than we're talking about here in chaplaincy, but it's important  that the institution that is accepting you knows that people who know you have a positive a positive impression of you and are willing to talk about that. And if you  can't find someone who will vouch for your character, you probably need to get  to know more people so that you can have that opportunity.  

Henry - It's so biblical too II Timothy 2:2, where the apostle Paul talks to Timothy, even says faithful people, recognizing faithful people. It's like there's something  powerful about that. And I we bring this up in this class, because some of you  need to align yourself in a body of Christ, and you know it, and maybe the  pandemic has got you out of that. Maybe some of you, you know, are new  believers, and you, in fact, today, you can grow so much online, it's true in terms of study, but yet to become aligned with faithful people, to look we talk in the  connection class about everyone needs a mentor. Everyone then needs to  mentor others. And how about that mentor culture? Talk about the mentor  culture just a little bit.  

Tom - Well, one thing that came to mind about that was like the church that I  attend, we have a large recovery program with AA, and the first thing that they 

do when someone decides that they're going to commit to trying to follow the  recovery process is they have a sponsor who has been through it themselves,  understands the challenges, understands the difficulty, but can be a person who  can encourage them along the way and be a resource whenever they need that  resource. In the military, we I know, in the Navy and the Coast Guard, we  encourage every single member of the military to have a mentor, because it's a  different life than people, than people maybe thought it would be when they  enlisted, when they joined, they had no idea what it was going to be like. So to  have somebody who can be there to answer questions, who can tell you what it  was like for them, who can warn you about pitfalls, who can encourage you is is  vital to being successful. My daughter's church, they for every new young, every young couple who gets married, or doesn't have to be young, every couple gets  married, is assigned a mentor couple right from the church, just somebody that  they can, you know, I don't want to call my mom and tell her about this, but I  need to talk to somebody who's been around and somebody who can just lead  you along the way. And one of the things that you had on that slide that I think  was important faithful and faithful, it's not saying perfect people, recognizing  perfect people. This is not a way to check up on you and make sure you're a  perfect person in every way. What it's saying is this person going to be faithful to their calling? Are they going to do their best to show character? Are they going  to do their best to show that they're trying to follow in Jesus steps? That's what  we're looking for, not people who are perfect, because we'd have a very small  organization if we only allowed perfect people.  

Henry - You know, I am really happy that you balance that out, because that is  not I mean, every one of us, like II Corinthians 4, we minister. We're cracked  pots out of broken vessels. But one thing about a believer is that we are being  renewed day by day and in yet, it's those broken when I am weak, then I am  strong. It's that broken piece of us that's very important, because we can meet  broken people, because we know what it's like to be broken. You know, we both  share something that I want to talk about, and that's we're both Dutch  Christians. Now I want to talk about this a little bit. I know it's a little off script, but one thing I appreciated about born again, Dutch Christian reform, backgrounded believers, and I think it's something we can share with the world. And I'm gonna  just boldly say it is this concept of moderation, like it's like when I was raised,  and I'm guessing you were raised. We haven't talked about this totally off script  here. Everyone we were, we knew, in fact, we grew up our entire childhood, my  entire childhood. We would have a call to confession every Sunday, and then  they'd even recite the law of God in growing up every Sunday. Now, I remember  as a child thinking, what's the deal with that? You know, I looked at my parents,  and they love the Lord and everything. So I remember asking my dad late in his  life, so dad, he's in his 90s now, godly man. I said, I want you to reflect upon it. 

And he said, You know what? Just know what we're capable in our sinful nature. Stay clear with the Lord. Grow. No one can be perfect. But it was really he said.  It was about the fruit of the Spirit, the self disciplined one that often no one talks  about. Like one of the fruits of the Spirit is just to have that circumspectness,  

that moderation. Did you have that kind of upbringing too?  

Tom - Sort of, Oh, absolutely. And the other side of that, of course, is we had the reading of the law and the call to confession, but then we had the assurance of  pardon, right? The next piece that, okay, maybe you didn't do that well. In fact,  we know you didn't do that right, but here's the assurance of pardon that comes  and not to get too deep into Dutch. No, no, no. I mean, this is our particular  background, but in and our reformed background, the teaching of the law was  not under the part of doctrine about the fall, it was about the gratitude that  grateful living. So we live with grateful living, which is why we obey the law,  because of our gratitude to God who has saved us instead of not trying  

Henry - to justify our salvation. It's in the joy of our. Salvation, but we're all but it  was also mindful the fact, oh yes, that which I again, I'm glad we went off on this little sidetrack here, because I believe many of you understand this, where  you've gone through how Jesus saved you, how the Holy Spirit's working with  you, and you're saying to yourself, I'm probably not good enough to be anything. 

Tom - And if you have not had those experiences where you have to say, God,  save me, in spite of me, you're probably not going to relate very well to the  people who come to you for help, right? They think that you have been perfect.  You don't have to air your dirty laundry, as we used to say, but let them know  that you're human, and you have struggled with things too, and you still struggle  with things, and that's okay, because that's part of the walk of faith. Wow, that's  really powerful.  

Henry - As we finish this up, just just to reaffirm public trust in real, real world  ministry institutions do want to know who sent you. They do want to know that  your clergy credentials matter. I have noticed over the years that when I go to a  hospital and I take out my clergy card and the security guard in his badge will  just okay, pastor, and I feel that public trust. I feel like that. You know, we're on a  public directory. It does open doors Absolutely. So finally, finalizing this  presentation. So here's the ministry of sciences, insight, legitimacy equals  calling plus plus recognition plus readiness. So we've talked about that you are  trained, affirmed and sent, and legitimacy enables trusted spiritual leadership in  public places. Any concluding comments on that? 

Tom - Just that that's all that other, all the other parts there, obviously all very  important. But what we want is people to trust us as spiritual leaders. And  anything we can do to build that trust will help us along the way, and that trust is  so essential in order to be able to enter those sacred spaces with people in their times of greatest need.  

Henry - Very good till next time.