Henry - Hi Henry and Steve here today. We're going to talk about that. We all  that we ended the class, but then we're going to do one yeah, we're going to do  one more because, because we've noticed over the years that you can learn all  this stuff right here and do a really amazing correct Bible study. But we also  noticed over the years that we had to be intentional about using metaphors  making something interesting. We even have a class that we recommend that  you attend on how to be interesting. But we did think after we did this, it was  probably good to give like extra just another presentation on some of the things  that we've learned over the years to get people to come back to look at a theme  or look at some metaphors. So I wanted to interview Steve. And then, of course,  I probably think of things as well. So what have been some of your ways that  you've kept things interesting over the years to make people want to come back. But  

Steve - you know, there's two ways. I think one way is to be interesting yourself. Okay, so you know that humor thing, I like humor, and I like to I like an  atmosphere where people can laugh and have fun. You can you know a special  insight that you've learned, you know through studying, let's say, at Christian  leaders, and you've learned some deep things about a passage, and others  might not know of that. And so, in a way, a leader can often have a special  knowledge, right? And that's interesting, especially if you, I think, present it in a  searching for gold manner. In other words, I remember, I remember when I was,  I spent a year in the Philippines when I was a student at seminary and and a  friend of mine, he went to somewhere in Hong Kong, and then he took a ferry,  another ferry, and then he ended up on some island. And anyway, so then he  told us all about that. So Marie and I followed his, you know, took the thing and  the ferry to the ferry to the island, took the bus, went to the thing. Okay, it wasn't  that great, right? And the reason wasn't that great is because it was great for  him, because he discovered it. We didn't know what he was doing. He then he  discovered this thing. I'm just following a thing. There's no mystery. I know  where I'm going. I know what it's all about. And so too when you when you  present an insight, it'd be like, hey, instead of just giving the Insight all at once,  let people fold it around with it, right? What does I thirst mean? Right? You know when Jesus said I thirst? Let's think about this, now. You have the answer, right? But let people kind of have fun as they're searching, so that they feel like they're  searching with you. So there's two different ways of making it interesting. Is  because you know stuff that they don't know, and it's really interesting, but to  help them participate in the finding of it, right? And that that's kind of an art to  make people to take people along on your journey that you know, how did you  figure that insight out in the first place? Right? Well, whatever it is, take those  people on the journey. Maybe people are on their phones, and people can  Google things, and you give them five minutes to All right, here's the word, what 

does it mean? And here's where you can look at, you know, Hebrew words and  what they mean, and then you have everyone do it, and now they share that,  and they're one of those words, is what you were going to bring up, but you led  them to it, rather than just right, you know, handed it to them. So I think that's,  you know, that there's, there's a toss up between making something really  interesting and then making people dependent on you making it interesting,  right? So it's more 

Henry - like if you can actually find the interesting people in your group and then give them an interesting stage. Yes, like, you know, you're really good at  creating games, will you be the one that comes in with these interesting games.  So we right away hook us in, just that, you know, so that. 

Steve - So let's say you got the wannabe teacher kind of person, right answer,  man, kind of person. Well, hey, next week we're looking at this passage, and  there's three words I would like you to give a little, five minute little speech on  these words. I want you to get into the background of it. And now they do that,  and hopefully they do a good job with that, but it's like making use of that  person. Now you could do it right, right? You could just do the Hebrew word and  so on, but then see now you're becoming the answer man, and your interesting,  but no one else is right. So if you can help people sort of be interesting, and you  can do that by example, right, like, hey, let's tell you know, a story, right, that that may be in your life that relates to this  

Henry - transparency? Yeah, the leader is not transparent. Most of the people  are not going to be trans, and transparency is more interesting than, like,  platitudes, yeah, like  

Steve - most Bible study groups last maybe one or two years, right? And then  they sort of peter out, right? And they do, because in the beginning, people are  sharing, and it's an insight, but then a lot of times it gets when that gets a little  too intimate and too ski, you know, scary, and so people step back, they start  being more safe, right? And safe is fine. That's boring, right?  

Henry - Yeah. Or how many times have we gotten to something in person? It's  like, you know, right? 

Steve - So you might have a, you know, today's Bible study, we're going to have  an argument, and You five are going to be on this side of this question, right? Is,  is, you know, an eschatology thing or something, or even, you know, I did this in  the Philippines, we had people that believe in infant baptism and adult baptism,  

right? And I just put them on opposite sides and say, Okay, today we're going to 

have a debate, a friendly debate. We're not going to hurt each other, right? But  we're going to have a friendly debate. And in fact, now I know you're an infant  baptism person, but I'm putting you on the adult baptism team argue the  opposite. So this is just, you know, this isn't life or death. This isn't a salvation  issue, but hopefully, in the process, we're going to uncover all the relevant  verses and thoughts and that's and then we maybe understand the other side a  little bit better. So it's just, you know, being 

Henry - so you know, the first part you mentioned is that that in the group, you  take responsibility for interesting environments. Yes, okay, yeah, you have to set an interesting tone, right? And we talked about, you have to be transparent.  What are some of the other things that we've learned over the years? What  makes people want to come back. So it's gonna be interesting. You know, the  transparency, I think love in the food, yeah, I mean little that's superficial we  talked about in this group. But I noticed, like I have over the years, I dropped the food, and then I noticed that the group just anything else. It just sort of, you  know, what you know, I think about for myself, 

Steve - when, when, when people go on and on and on, like, you know, a 10  minute speech, right? If there's 10 Minute speeches, you know, maybe one out  of 10 is really interesting, right? But it's like, then I think about, okay, the group's  coming over tonight, and do I, I don't know why it's so hard. Sometimes. Just  listen for 10 minutes. If a person needs to speak, I should be able to listen. But  it's like, it's, you want people looking forward to this evening. So I think some of  less is more, yes, okay, you know, I took a Dale Carnegie course, you know, and it was 12 sessions, and we had to take what we learned. There was always like  a two minute speech thing. It was like 40 in the class. So people would get up  one by one and give a two minute speech, which lasted forever, right, right? But  it was interesting, and it was interesting because people did it in two minutes.  There was no fluff. There was no, I mean, people shared their hearts out. They  shared their stories from, you know, one, we had a pantomime, something, you  know, and the people had to figure out what it was, and it was just interesting,  because, you know, people sort of honed it down to what what is interesting.  And I learned in that class that if you were asked the right questions, like, what  was the most significant thing that ever happened to you in your life, and and  why it was significant, right? Well, you're going to get some real powerful stories. 

Henry - even take the same question on a specific topic. So if you're doing a  Bible study on Grace, you could say, What's the most, what's the most  significant example of how you receive grace in 

Steve - your Yes, or the most? What is your favorite verse on Grace and why  you're right? Why is it your favorite? Or what was your darkest moment in your  life, and what verse in the Bible help you get out of that dark moment. I'm telling  you, you're going to have some stories, and it's going to be incredibly  interesting, interesting. So it's so being able to ask some of those questions,  even in a regular Bible study, to ask someone to reflect on that was, you know,  you seem. Passionate about this particular thing. Was there anything in your life  that relates to this right now, when they share, people are going to be listening. 

Henry - I want to shift gears. There's a few things we're giving you about how to be interesting here. I have another question. How do you grow a Bible study?  So how to get how do you lead people in, like increasing or have a new leader  Come here. How do they get people to come without putting a notice in the  bulletin, which often people ignore? 

Steve - Well, number one, if you have 10 people, you're already the size you  can be. I mean, anything over 10, you just have another person not talking,  right? So 10 is about the max number that a small group. And then there  becomes a teaching thing, yeah? You know, like a, like a sermon, you know,  church service, we can't have other, 

Henry - really house church, which is sort of different than a Bible study. Is that  10 or more? 

Steve - Yeah, and then you have leaders taking on more responsibility than  right, sharing. Sharing, if you're gonna have sharing, you can't have, you know,  once you go past 10, right? So let's say you're at eight, well, you still have room  for two. Now the problem often you bring someone new, and they don't know all  the special rules. They don't they don't get the path, you know, the agenda. They don't get the ground rules that you all went over two years ago. A lot of things  are being talked about. You know, have their own special language that you've  all developed so, so being aware that this person is new, and how do you  onboard them? How do you make them feel welcome? How do you give them  enough knowledge so that they can catch up quickly and explain why we do  things? So that's really important. I think the biggest hindrance is, you know,  once you have your 10 you stay there and here's the here's the reason why,  being the answer man, and doing all the talking and leading in a special manner, because you're so good at it, no one else will want to take that Bible study over.  So the only way to grow is to divide, right? I mean, in the end, if you have 10,  you're done. And so if you're going to grow, you know, either you have to let a  few go off and get some people or not, but, but if you're, if the Bible study is 

such a success, because you're such a great leader, no one in the group is  going to think that they can do what you do, right? 

Henry - So, really, so when we're talking about growing, we're talking about  reproducing too Yes. So at 10, not too difficult. Many ways to get to 10, but to  create a movement yes is to create 10 groups of 10 Yes. So now, if you start  thinking about that, and also, new questions are raised. So when you set the  agenda, you want to set the agenda via multiplying agenda for a movement in  your church or your community, unless you just want to be that person again,  that's a possibility.  

Steve - It is. Then the group will go on and maybe it'll last. Maybe it won't last, by the way, another point too is lot of groups go too far and too late. You know, that  is sort of winding down, but no one right here is there. Stop it, yeah. Like, how  do you end the group? And so it goes another year where no one really wants to go. The problem with that is then people don't want to be a part of a Bible study.  Again. They need a recovery of five years or something, right? So when you  sense as a leader, you're the leader, right? So you're the one that has to do  something about it. So if you sense that it's sort of winding down, you bring that  up and say, hey, you know, I think either we should do something different, or we should divide. Or maybe, you know, our season is done, and you know, we can  figure that out, and there's nothing wrong with that. 

Henry - Or is there a possibility to, like, say that, like we're going to do one year  maximum, yeah, yeah. I mean, even before, you know, in that opening, just  that's the best time to do it is right before the set the ground rules. But then one  of them, when the word schedule, is that this will be a one year Bible study. This  will be a one topic Bible study and the worst. 

Steve - And that, by the way, is an easy way to get people because some  people go, Okay, you make a Bible study, but it's forever, and so I don't want to  commit myself forever, right? So if you have a six week Bible study, and that's all you're asking someone to do, way more people are willing to say, Yeah, you  know, I'll try that, right? You know? And then after the six weeks, you can say  what it might be possible, you know, in the future. But you know, people are  more willing to make a commitment to a shorter time then, you know, it's this  unending thing, right? 

Henry - Is it possible to do like, sort of leader, incubation, Bible? Study where  you recruit people? Yeah, what we're going to do is do one year, and all we're  going to do is talk about how to set an agenda and talk about how to do a Bible  study. We're talking about, in fact, we're going to if one of us becomes an 

answer man, you know, and make it fun, almost make it a game, and then at the end of that year. The whole point is, all of you are leaders, 

Steve - we're going to help each other recruit people. That would be probably  the best way to do a Bible study is to put multiplication right in the middle of it.  Because the problem is, if it doesn't, the Bible study doesn't go well. No one  wants to be a leader in a Bible study. And if it goes really well, people don't want  to leave that group, right? So what we did, way back when with Where's Philip  and all those things, remember, what we said is, okay, we have this Bible study,  but everyone this is training for you to be a leader in a Bible study, but you don't  want a miss lose this group. But we won't lose this group, because we will be  leaders, and we'll have a leader meeting once a month where we get together  and talk about how our groups are going. So we don't really, we get the best of  both worlds. We keep this group that we've invested in, that we, you know, get  along so well with, and then we but we expand it. And that's really, you know, the problem with all evangelism, with church growth period, is we get, we get a  group of people. We like this group of people, and we don't really want new  people coming in messing that up, right? 

Henry - Well, and I feel there is also an inertia that goes against, growing after a while, yes, and if you're not self aware of it in the beginning, yeah. If that's not  your goal, the inertia will ultimately lock. I mean, there are there. This is the truth 1987 in 88 and 89 when we planted churches today, just six months ago, I found out that a group that we started in 1988 still meets. they now the church has,  you know, migrated into different things, but so I could say that that 30 years I  planted a small group in that small group, it's still me now, on one level, that's  okay, but I had talked to one of people and I said, How's it going? Well, I really  can't leave it right, and I'm willing to want to leave it over this joke here, all about 15 years ago, yeah, but this is a 30 year group, and they are not really reached  anybody else. And again, it sounds like I'm being critical, because, you know, I'm sure that they have been each other's lives, they've been lives together and all  that. But I don't think I thought 30 years ago about creating, reproducing groups. 

Steve - But in a sense, you remember we talked at the very beginning that  small, small group thing came into existence because the family, the extended  family thing, was falling apart, right? And the extended family stays together,  right? Sort of right? Because at first you're really close to your brothers and  sisters, but then you get married and you start having kids, you have grandkids,  you spend way more time with your own family than you do with the extended  family. So it's sort of, it sort of works out, but you still do things with the extended family. It's just once in a while you talk about things, you compare notes on  grandkids, and all of those things. So there's a built in mechanism in the family 

system for growth, because people keep growing up, they get married, have  kids, and that system keeps going. The problem with this sort of, you know,  created extended family small group is you don't have a natural childbirth thing.  You don't have a teenager that wants to leave home eventually and do his own  thing, right? So the family system has a built in mechanism for growth. In the  small group system, we sort of have to the leaders, have to sort of always push  in that direction. 

Henry - So, so to be a reproducing small group is to want that right off the gate,  yeah, and to into raise up leaders and train them to be the teenager that wants  to leave. 

Steve - And that's why it's so important to encourage people when when they're  in your Bible study, because most people are thinking, Well, I can't do what you  do, right? So you have to overcome that mentality, not be as impressive as you  could be. Yes, you have to be impressive in the fact that you're impressed by  

your people, and you communicate it all the time, and you challenge and you  give responsibility, and even when someone takes the responsibility and fails,  it's like, well, you know, that was a tough thing, but I'm that you even tried is  amazing to me. You I see your potential, yeah, so you have to be this  cheerleader that's always trying to lift everyone up, or they will never want to  leave their own group.  

Henry - You know, we're probably. We probably end here. We're at the 20  minute market. If you were to look back at the movement of Christianity that you  were part of the Bible studies, small groups, the churches you planted and  everything, where would someone start this? I mean, they've just seen a whole  class now. Where were they?  

Steve - Well, we always talk about what you should if you want to be a Bible  Study leader and you're not walking with God in your own personal life, then you start there. Start there and start in your own family. Timothy, if you can't manage  your own family, why should we put in charge of the church? And it's not like a,  you know, a penalty or something like that. It's just that you learn so much in  doing it in your family that all those lessons leak over so that then from there, if  you have something good going on in your own family, see, you're kind of aware of things. You know, when we had four boys, we're reading the Bible, also self  aware of the process, yeah, and you're, you're, you see progress and, you  know, so you're aware of the good thing. This is a good thing. So now you might  be more motivated to start something, not that when you start something, it  doesn't have to be 10 people, right? You can find this one other couple. The only thing that having more helps is then, when people can't make it that night, you 

have somebody, but you really only need a few people, right? So start with  someone. Start sharing your vision of what you want to do. Figure out what kind  of study you want. Even make up a little flyer or something. And hey, I'm thinking of starting you can read about it and see if you're interested, and start passing  them out to whoever. And I think people really want to be a part of something.  And no one invites people to anything, generally. So if you or you might, start  with hospitality, right? Start, you know, this year, Honey, we're going to do  hospitality like nobody's business every week or every two weeks. We're going  to have someone over after a year of that, right? You'll have a lot of connections  to people,  

Henry - and you'll be able to see it. So in other words, so to in this whole class, I  think, start with your personal life. If it's not rare, then maybe start with a little  hospitality, try something, and then when you start a group, we've talked about,  like those rules and all of that, but then have reproduction be a movement  leader. Although, if you are not called for that, that's fine too. But in general, the  opportunity before us is pretty incredible. Well, Steve, this has been fun. I really  enjoy doing classes with you, and I pray that all of you will find your place, your  role as a leader, and May Christ be glorified.



Modifié le: lundi 24 novembre 2025, 16:53