Transcript: Lesson 34 - Gay & Lesbian People

Welcome, friends, we are thinking about God's story, who God is as Creator and Redeemer,  and how that big story intersects with our story, and specifically, our sexuality, how we think  about our marriage, our singleness, how we think about our sexual identity and gender  identity? And what those things say about who God is. And these last few units, and then in  this final unit, as well, we're thinking about, what does it mean to be the family of God, and  specifically how the family of God can walk with LGBT+ people, as we all seek to follow Jesus  together, recognizing that we are all in need of the gospel, and recognizing that we all are  loved by Jesus. And so as we think about this, so we reflect on this together, I just want to  continue to keep in front of us, that reality of, of gospel sexuality, that what we're talking  about here is not a, not a legalism, not let's add more rules. But it's it's understanding that  God meets us where we're at as sinful people as broken people. But that God doesn't leave us where we're at it, that he is about the business of transforming us in the image of His Son,  Jesus, and that through our marriage, or through our singleness, he wants to put on display  his love for the world, whether that's in how I love my spouse, to my self giving self sacrificial  care, or whether that's how through as a single person, I give of myself, to my brothers and  sisters in the body of Christ and, and serve Jesus in that way. So we are all walking this path of discipleship we are all called to put on display the love of Jesus for the world around us. And  that as we continually receive His love, we can be a channel of that love to those around us.  And so in this unit, we're going to think about what does it mean for Christians to walk well  with gay and lesbian people with our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters in Christ? And to  wrestle with? What does scripture say? How does Scripture teach us on these matters? And  how are we called together to follow Jesus. And so one of the first things I want to do in this  first video, we're gonna lay some foundations for, for later videos. And the first thing I want to do is clarify some different terms of language that's often used. A lot of times, I will hear  people ask a question like this, is it sin? Is it a sin to be gay? Is it a sin to be gay? And part of  the problem with that is that that language actually, is not very precise. When people use the  term gay or when people use the term lesbian they can, they can mean a number of different  things. They might, for example, mean, when they when they use terminology like that, they  might mean something like gay as an identity or gay as an orientation, that part of what  they're trying to get at is that there is this, there's this deep seated predisposition or  orientation, to be romantically or sexually attracted to people of the same sex. And that part  of what this gets at is this, this identity piece that this is part of my experience of who I am,  that I think it's become increasingly clear to people that for most folks, orientation is not  something that they choose, you know, this is not something where somebody who wakes up  one day and says, I want to be straight, or I want to be gay, but that in most people's  experience, this is something that is that is deep seated in in who they are and their identity.  Now notice when we talk about identity or orientation, that way, part of what we're talking  about is is more of a general predisposition. We're not talking about any specific action. And  so when we talk about gay or straight as an identity or as an orientation, it's it's more of that  overarching sense of predisposition of identity. It doesn't really tell us much, or as we typically use those terms about somebody's sexual activity. Right? If I say that I'm straight, that  doesn't tell you whether I'm single, whether I'm married, whether I'm in a relationship,  whether I'm sexually active or not. And so one of the problems with how this is sometimes  been framed, is that when somebody says something like was, is being gay a sin, this  language is actually not very precise and clear. It's not very precise and clear. And so the  problem with this, then is we end up saying, well, if somebody has this predisposition or  orientation, even if they're not, they're following actually scriptures to command for sexual  activity. They're not lusting after people. They're not engaged in sexual activity. But they are  they're being honest about this since that I am as a general predisposition on romantically  attracted to sexually attracted to people of the same sex, we do realize that that is far  different from somebody who is sexually active and out there sleeping with people on a  regular basis. And so we have to be clear here in how we're using terminology. Because if  we're not we end up calling people to something maybe that Scripture doesn't even call them  to. And so in other words, there could be somebody who is who is gay, but they're saying  look, I recognize scriptures definition of marriage is that marriage is between a man and a 

woman in this one flesh, sexual union. And so I'm a person who is gay, I'm attracted to people of the same sex, but I am bringing my sexuality under the Lordship of Jesus empowered by  His Holy Spirit, I believe that I'm called to either walk in this life of celibacy, and singleness, or to enter into a mixed orientation marriage where I'm married to somebody of the opposite  sex, even though that's maybe not my, my first inclination. And so somebody could say, Yeah, I'm gay, but they're still living in line with scripture. Whereas, of course, somebody could be  straight and be living totally out of line with God's intentions for human sexuality, that, that  they could be hooking up with people sexually, that they could be, you know, getting married  and divorced for no good reason multiple times have multiple partners. And so we have to be  really careful here. Because again, sometimes the way these terms have been used for the  church, that has been to kind of say, well, if you're straight your sexuality is, is maybe not  fallen not not sinful in the way that a gay person's is. But when we start to think about the  complexity of these terms in this language, we start to realize it's more complicated that.  Greg Coles in his book, which I'd highly recommend a called "Single, Gay, Christian", even  makes what struck me as a really interesting point. He said that as a gay man for him, some  of one of his female friends said, you know, I feel comfortable with you in a way that I don't  necessarily feel comfortable sometimes with, with straight men. And Greg observes,  interestingly, he says, "you know, my gay body knows what most straight men, what will  straight Christian men have to learn, which is that a woman's body is not just to be an object,  not just to be a sexualized object." And I thought that was interesting, because again, a lot of  times we tend to think of, we tend to think of gay Christians, gay people as like, well, they're  their sexuality is more broken than straight people. And part of what Greg Coles points out is  that, but there's a sense in which he actually has an advantage over me. Because of my  straight orientation, I'm more likely to see a woman as just a sexual object. And so when I  think about his struggle, it would be that he would tend to see men that way. And I would tend to see women that way. Well, that's a struggle that we both share that we both have in  common, there's not a sense in which my, my struggle is better or morally superior to his.  And so I really appreciate that because again, it I think it puts us all in the same boat, it helps  us recognize we all need the gospel, and we all need Jesus. Now, when we think about some  of the discussion around marriage, and how to understand marriage, that has happened in  the last several decades within, within Christian circles, I want to highlight a couple of  different theological positions, because this is an area where people don't always agree. And  so two different positions here, when people think about their theology of marriage and  understanding same sex relationships. The the historic view is called this because this, this  has been the historic position of the church. This is when you look at 2000 years of church  history. There are a lot of things that Christians have disagreed on. But But interestingly, up  until the last couple of decades, you know, the definition of marriage is something that the  Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Protestants, you know, people all across the board  Pentecostals, Presbyterians, you know, Conservative Fundamentalist, Anglicans, right people  all across the board, typically held to the view that marriage is between a man and a woman  again, going back to Genesis 1 and 2, looking at the creation narrative, seeing how God  defines marriage as this one flesh union between a man and a woman two sexually different  people. And so you have the historic view, but in especially in the last 30-40 years, and really  the last maybe 10 or 15 years in the in the popular level of most churches. You start to you  start to see the revisionist view, gain some traction. In this view, sometimes this is called the  affirming it's affirming of same sex marriage. And so this view says that marriage is just  between two people, that it doesn't matter if they're male and female, it doesn't matter if  they're two men or two women, that marriage is really between two people who love each  other, who commit themselves to each other, with all that that entails. And so we're going to  think a little bit about these, these different positions. One thing that that I want to be clear  about, and I'll put my cards on the table, I hold to the historic view that marriage is between a man and a woman, you can probably see that through if you go back and reflect on the  previous units, and how we've talked about marriage and thought about the importance of  procreation. But, but one thing I want to make really clear here is that I think that you can  hold to the historic view, that marriage is between a man or woman and still genuinely love, 

gay people, that what's going on what it means to love somebody what it means to care for  somebody, what it means to be gracious, and kind, and gentle to people, that all of those  things are biblical values, too. And so the point here, in emphasizing in talking to these things, and holding to the historic view, the point here is not to hold that view, with a kind of hatred  in my heart, or hold that view with the kind of superiority like I'm better than somebody else.  But simply to try to acknowledge this is what Scripture teaches, it is God's intention it is God's best for humanity and, and to do my best to live that out in my own marriage context, and be  willing to walk alongside people who are themselves struggling to get this. And so again,  here, I think it's really important that Christians are consistent. And so I'm willing to walk  alongside my friends or people in my church who are struggling sexually with straight sexual  sin. So people struggling with pornography, people struggling with marriages that are not  functioning as they should people involved in sex outside of marriage, and figuring out how to how to heal broken relationships there. I recognize that even where there's brokenness and  sinfulness, God can still be at work. And I'm still called to walk alongside people. And so I  think it's utterly inconsistent and hypocritical, if we're willing to walk alongside each other as  we struggle with straight sexual sin. But then we were to say, Well, if you're a gay person and  struggling with, with sexual sin, as a gay person, I'm not going to walk alongside of you, I'm  not going to be present in your life, you have to get everything together. And then you can  come and be part of our church and walk with us. And so, you know, life is, is complicated life  is messy. As we walk on this journey of following Jesus together, I think it's important that we,  that we be consistent that we that we are gracious and truthful, to everybody. And so that,  that's just my disclaimer, I hope as we walk through this, that you can hear that come  through, in my tone and my my posture, that sense of love and care for everybody. I want to  make a couple of biblical observations that I think are important here, especially because of  the way gay people have have often been almost demonized within Christian circles. So So  here are a couple of observations first, same sex sexual activity is not commonly named or or  it's not commonly called out in Scripture as a sin. So this is this is on the people point out in a  number of different contexts. I want to highlight here, just the fact that it's not like, Scripture  repeatedly says, here is let me tell you the worst sin, it's same sex, sexual activity. In fact, you know, we realize when the Bible talks about sexual immorality, it usually does talk about it in  that broad sense. It doesn't just say, well, this kind of sexual immorality is really bad that this  kind is okay. And so if we look at our churches, if we look at how Christians approach gay and  lesbian people, if I see that my church is like calling out and pointing out the sin of gay  people, in a way that is just disproportionate to how scripture talks about it, then that's  probably a problem. Right? And it's an indicator to me that, you know, oftentimes we kind of  block out the sins that the Bible might be pointing out in our lives, so that we can focus on  sins going on in in others. And so just realize that Scripture, the Scripture is not about harping on gay people. It's not about repeatedly calling out same sex sexual activity as a sin. I think  this is more about translation. And that is, when we look at the Bible, which is originally  written in Hebrew. And in Greek, it's important to think through what are the words in the  Hebrew and Greek, trying to communicate. And this is where when you look at a little bit older translations, I think it's not. Some older translations will translate Greek words with English  words like homosexuals. And part of the problem with that, I think, is that it's not precise  enough. In other words, if you go back to the previous slide, where we were talking about how people use the term gay, that when people use the term homosexual, which, again, is not a  term that people use all that much today, partly because it's clinical, it sounds a little bit  disconnected. But when we think about a word like homosexual, that doesn't clear it sounds  like just orientation. When in fact, what happens when you dig into the words that are going  on there in Scripture, what you find is that the words are actually talking about sexual activity. So it's not just that somebody has a certain orientation, it's that somebody is actually  engaging in same sex, sexual activity. And so this is where again, it's important that we are  precise and clear about what the Bible is prohibiting and what it isn't. It's not saying that just  a gay orientation in and of itself is sinful. And so all gay people have to become straight. But  in fact, it's calling out same sex sexual activity. And that's that's what the focus is. The other  thing I want to note here is that when the Bible does mention same sex, sexual activity, it's 

always in the context of other sins. This is similar to the point I made in the first bullet point  here, which is that it's not held up as like, here's the worst of all sins. It's listed, even when it's talks about in Romans 1, it then Paul talks about all kinds of other sins in terms of things,  including things like gossip and drunkenness, and being disobedient to parents. All right, so  there's a whole list of sins here. The point is not that this is held up as being something really  bad, but it's actually generally listed along with with other sins, that that many of us are  involved in as well. And so, again, part of what this does, is it helps deconstruct this idea that  somehow same sex sexual activity is the sort of the worst of all sins and kind of set apart.  Finally, just to continue to drive this point home, same sex, sexual activity is never seen in  Scripture as more heinous more disgusting, more problematic than other sins. You know, in  fact, this is where people you know, rightly point out if you want to talk about what kind of  sins Scripture does focus on, Scripture says far more about the sin of greed and how we use  money, how do we use our possessions. But for a lot of North American Christians, at least,  we can kind of turn a blind eye to that. Even though if you if you look statistically, if, if you  make more than $30,000 a year, as an American, you are in the 1% of the world's population  when it comes to wealth. And so it's easy for us to kind of turn a blind eye to text that might  hit closer to home, and focus on something that that really makes us feel good, because we  can then talk about the sins of other people and maybe how they struggle. And so all this is,  is to say that when you look at scripture, Scripture never sets apart gay people and never sets apart same sex sexual activity as as this really bad thing as this most horrible of sins. And so  this is where I think we have to let how we talk about things, imitates scripture that we make  sure that we're not engaging in rhetoric that talks about same sex sexual activity as though  it's, it's, it's worse or as though gay people are somehow worse than straight people or the  other sins that we might wrestle with. I also want to make a couple of pastoral observations  here. I would encourage you and in our short time together, we don't have a lot of time to to  walk through this. But I would encourage you to recognize that one of the main callings here  for for folks in ministry, and even those who are lay leaders in church is to do good pastoral  care. What I found is that most gay lesbian people are more than more than aware of what  Christians believe about marriage. And so what they don't necessarily need is, you know, here more verses telling you about God's intentions for marriage. Here's what God says about sex.  They need people to walk alongside them and listen to their struggles, listen to their, their  hurt and the pain that they carry, and, and even to listen so that you can get a sense of what  they know about what it means to follow Jesus and how, oftentimes how difficult that that is  and listen to the kind of suffering that they have experienced. And so it's important that we  do pastoral care in a way that says, that makes people feel safe that says, if somebody comes out to you, that you know how to respond and say, Wow, thank you for being courageous  enough to, to tell me about that. And you know, and then just gently, ask loving, caring  pastoral questions are What? What can I do to walk alongside you? What can I do to support  you. And this is the case as well, in cases of parents who are maybe wrestling with a child  who's, who's come out that our number one goal, there is pastoral care. And that doesn't  mean just coming up with all the right answers to toss at people, but really doing more  listening and hearing what they have to say about their story and about who they are. I also  think it's helpful to note or at least interesting to note, why people often shift their view from  the historic view of marriage between a man and a woman to an affirming view that marriage  is between any two people, I think a big part of that is that they know somebody who's gay or lesbian, and that as they know, this person, it becomes, you know, more difficult for them to  say, wow, you know, to say that, that person can't get married to somebody of the same sex.  That is a difficult path. That's a path that that does involve suffering. And so a lot of times,  there's a sense that people shift out of the desire to, to reduce the suffering of others people  to show care and concern and compassion for them. And so I think, again, I think that impulse is right, to say, you know, we need to walk alongside people. But I think this is where to go  back to our overarching discussion. This is why we need the church to be functioning as the  family of God, because because if I'm going to say to somebody, I recognize that you are that  you're gay or lesbian. So for you, attraction, and sexual attraction is toward the same sex, but I really believe God's best is is marriage between a man and a woman or celibacy. But here's 

how I think God wants us as the church body to walk alongside you in your suffering, that we  want to be brothers and sisters to you in that, recognizing that it is a hard calling that God's  put on your life, just just like, in a lot of ways, celibacy for a straight person is a hard calling is  a difficult calling. And so we want to be there. I think it's also important to recognize it, a lot of people shift their views, because of just bad theology, or bad assumptions about gay people.  So for example, if, you know if you're taught that gay people are, you know, monsters, or gay  people are just out of control sexually, or gay people are, you know, just just horrible people,  then all of a sudden, when you actually encounter a gay person, or you have a child or family  member who's gay, then you're like, Well, wait, wait a second, they're not a monster. They're  They're, they're, they're not just out of control sexually. And so the more that we kind of  perpetuate myths about gay people, the more it shall I think it'll lead people into this mindset  where well, the only way to be loving, the only way to be caring is to be affirming. And so I  think it's really important that we don't perpetuate those stereotypes. So that we can walk  well with people as they go through this journey. And finally, this goes for everybody to think  about pastoral observations. Gospel sexuality is, is it's not legalism, it's not about do all these  rules, and you'll be good enough for Jesus Gospel sexuality says Jesus comes to you in your  sin in your brokenness. But whereas a lot of conservatives lean toward a kind of legalism that  says, Do this, and you'll be good, you'll be okay. A lot of people who may be more  theologically progressive or affirming can tend toward a kind of relativism, that essentially  say, Well, Jesus loves you and forgives your sins. So you kind of do what seems best to you do what you think is going to be most fulfilling. Do what you think is going to make you happy.  And that can lead not only to affirming same sex marriage, it can lead to affirming people in  divorce or adultery. It can lead to affirming polyamory, which is where you have three or more people in a sexual relationship. It's really dangerous to just say, God loves you, God forgives  you now, do whatever you want. Now Now follow the desires of your heart. And so this is  where we have to understand the gospel meets us where we're at it meets us recognize we  are sinners in need of Jesus. And it also recognizes that we're empowered by the Spirit of  Jesus, to walk in newness of life. It doesn't mean that we're perfect, but it does mean that day by day, we're called to live in line with God's intention for our sexuality, so that we can  communicate something about the love of Jesus to the to the world around us that's watching. But in the next, in the next video, we're going to think a little bit more about some of the  arguments in favor of gay marriage from Scripture. And review it a little bit more detail the  historical view, and look at how we think about these these two different angles on this  discussion, and how that affects our theology of marriage. So until next time, blessings