Video Transcript: Leadership Levels

Welcome back, I hope that you were helped by the interview we had last week with our last  session when you did the session with a friend of mine, just just to understand, again, that  leaders come in various styles and various senses of calling. And some of us don't even know  we're leaders at certain points. And God has to call us into that. And so just wanted you to  hear from somebody who's out there and has done this for years and and his leadership skills  were developed, they weren't just natural, they were developed because he didn't realize he  was the leader. So I hope that was helpful to you. This this session, we're going to move on to  what I'm calling, as you'll note on the slide, levels of leadership leadership levels. Now, this is  going to be helpful to you as you function as a leader to realize that the extent of your  leadership or the authority that you have is different depending on what level you're on. Let  me give you some ideas about what that looks like. Now, here, again, is this model we've  been looking at for a long time to leader interacting with culture to develop a vision of a  preferred future, and then doing the actions and the planning and the prayer that will lead to  that future. That's what we're talking about. And we've been talking about the leader now for  a long time. Few more sessions on that, and then we'll move on to culture, leadership levels.  First, and his best develop this, I think, is a man named John Maxwell, in his book Developing  the Leader Within You. Many people have talked about these various levels, but he puts it in  these wonderful Ps so that they're memorable. He looks at these five levels of leadership,  each level that you go up, expands your authority gives you a greater space in which a  greater magnitude of what you can do in that particular level of leadership. So these are  expanding levels. The first one is position, second one permission. Third is production. Fourth  is people development. And the last one is personhood, that people will follow you who you  are. Now, I want to spend time today just talking about each of these. Because it's it's going  to be helpful depending on where you are deciding where you are, as you look at your  situation and where you are a leader, where you are and what you can do in that particular  level. So the first one, when you come into a new position, you are given authority, because  you've got a job description, you've been hired to do this particular job. Now, when you're  new at that job, that's the limit of your authority is your job description. In fact, you'll notice,  as I put here in the notes, you have stated authority. Now, you'll note also that the younger  generation doesn't accept stated authority very well, millennials, don't trust people just  because they have a job description. And this doesn't always work well with volunteers,  because they don't trust people who just have a job description, white collar workers will tend to, to question authority of somebody who just has a positional authority. But this is where  you start. It's where everybody starts in a new organization, you've just hired on as a pastor  or a youth pastor or a music director, or maybe you're in the the world of business, or you're  in the world of a factory somewhere, when you take a job, you have this set of  responsibilities, and that's where you have authority to function. Now, there's a challenge  with this level. And that is that first of all, when you first come into a position, there are going  to be some people who won't let you or won't want you to for a variety of reasons, not all of  them bad. They won't want you to take more authority than you have. And in fact, well, they  will try to take your responsibility. When I first accept the call to come to the church where I  ended my act of ministry in the pastoring sense. We had a staff person and my job description said that I was responsible as the senior pastor for the staff and I was responsible for deciding staff meetings and and developing what happened in those staff meetings. Well, this  particular staff person had been there for several years, and wasn't sure if he liked me knew  me or he didn't know me. But what did he like me? Was he willing to trust my stated  authority, and he really wasn't. And so I kept getting surprised because he would come to  staff meetings, and he would have this agenda of things he wanted to do at staff meeting.  And he wanted to show this video and he wanted to discuss this book and he wants to do  these things. And finally, I had to sit down with him and say, Wait a minute, wait a minute.  This is my job. And several times over email. We went back and forth. I said this is my job,  and so that that's one side of the equation of person who is in this positional authority, you  just have the position. The other side is, if you go too far trying to expand your authority,  there will be an effect for some that will snap back because they, they, they don't like what  you're doing. They don't think you have that authority. For instance, when I went to the 

church in California, I was the first staff person there. And I was working with somebody who  had been there for several years, seven, seven years. And so he had authority that was way  above mine as far as the trust of the congregation. So I'm coming in, but he said, It was his  idea. But I came in new and so I came in with all kinds of opportunities to make change,  because people wouldn't get on a new person that way they had been getting on him for  some of the chains that changes that were going on. And so we decided to make some  changes. First change I made was the bulletin. Now in my tradition of bulletins, that important thing, you're handed to it, you're handed it when you come into worship, and you go into the  Worship Center, and you read the bulletin, and then that bulletin is a summary of what's  going to happen in worship that day, usually, and there are some announcements about  people who are sick and programs that are coming up and that sort of thing. Well, in that  church, the bulletin had on the front page, a drawing of the church building. Now remember,  as we sat with, together I with this older pastor, and we're talking about what what things  should we talk about changing big and small, one of the small ones was I said, you told us as  crazy as somebody come into the church building, they seen the church building, why do we  put it on the front of the bulletin? Wouldn't it be a great idea, if we've got some artists in our  church to draw what they think is the perception of the church, its ministry. And so I had three artists who volunteered to develop a drawing and the one that came up first was just a  delightful drawing. It was a, it was kind of a field of wheat. And in this wheat was a caterpillar  and the Caterpillar was eating. And then in the picture, there was gradual development until  there's a butterfly that's flying a beautiful picture of what we're trying to do, taking people  who are lost. introducing them to Jesus Christ, and then seeing them grow in Christ until  they're they're flying. They're soaring with him on wings like eagles, as Isaiah says. Well the  first Sunday, that bulletin came out, I started getting phone calls. By the time I got home from church of people, one woman just said, I wept all the way home, I've lost my church. See,  they didn't think they give me the authority to make those kinds of changes, I had not earned  the right yet to make those kinds of changes. And so if you're at this position, you have to be  very careful. Here's some things you should be doing. Know your job description. Know it well, know well what you are expected to do know well, what you are responsible for, and then  accept responsibility in that area. Don't let anybody take it away from you. But you accept the responsibility to do those jobs that are listed on your job description. Third thing to do is do  more than expected. In other words, go beyond now you got to be careful where you're  stepping on somebody else's authority or somebody else's position, but do more than  expected, I sold clothes at one time in my working life. And the owner of the store once took  me out to dinner, and we're talking and he was just giving me tips, I was in college at the time giving me tips. And he said, you know, if you want to succeed in life, always do more than is  expected. And so you know, so I would help with clean up and I would just do more than my  job description, which is meet people as they came into the store, help them find the clothes  they want. And then work the cash register, make sure that they pay what's, what the cost of  the clothing is, that was my job. But he said, you know, if you're looking around looking clean  up, or sweep up the back, or, or get new merchandise out, there are a variety of other things I could do beyond my job description that allowed him and the manager of that store to trust  me more. And then lastly, if you're at that level, you're new in the organization, you've only  got that authority, offer ideas for change and improvement those in authority over you. And  hopefully you do that with a spirit that is accepted that you can say, you know, I've been  thinking and you've got to earn the right to do that as well. So that's the first level is this  positional authority. The second level is permission. I love the quote by Fred Smith. It's here,  Fred Smith, as a businessman have built that very couple of very successful businesses. He  said leadership is getting people to work for you when they are not obligated. Well, that's this  level of permission that people aren't going to follow you or listen to your authority just  because you of opposition. But because you have a relationship with them, there is a bond  between you. So at this level, what you're doing is investing in people you're getting to know  them, you're letting them get to know you, you're developing a closeness in your working life  together, that allows them to follow you because it's good to come to work because they feel  like they're coming to work. And they're, they're coming among friends, this is a very 

important, important level to come to. Now I put on the bottom of this slide, don't skip this  level, it's very easy for somebody to try to go from the positional authority and jump over the  relationship part of it to right to production. But the reality is, unless people know you and you know them, you know their name, you know, their family situation, etc. They aren't going to  give you a clear leadership mandate. Above that, if you don't do that work. Now there are  boundaries there, and all that sort of thing. I'm going to talk about that next time. But just be  aware, don't skip this level permission. It's built on the relationship that you have with people. If you're at this level, love your people more than you love procedures. I like that because it's  easy for those of us in leadership to develop systems. And we want these systems to thrive.  And so we are committed to developing systems that work. And we love those systems. But  at this level, you'd have to love people more than procedures. And working with people  always a challenge. People don't always get along. And so you have to do Win Win decisions  with your people. In other words, you don't just make decisions at this level and hand them  down to people saying do this, as we talked about last time in the styles of leadership, you  can't be an authoritative even even an autocratic, a beneficial leader benevolent leader to  them, they won't accept it. And so you've got to do win win you have to bring them in. Now,  that Win Win idea is one that was popularized by Stephen Covey many years ago in his book,  Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And I had the privilege of seeing him once  demonstrate this, in a conference where he was speaking, he said, Who here is his pro life,  while there are a lot of people pro life meaning that they were opposed to abortion in our  country. And then he said, Now I want somebody somebody, if you'll admit it, if you are pro  abortion, and he got these two people up there now here is a vast difference between these  two people. And yet he sat down, he said, Now we're going to try to work toward a win win  decision about what you should do about the abortion issue. And that was amazing. Over the  next about 30 minutes, he brought these people to some agreements with each other. First of  all, that, you know, abortion is probably not the preferable solution. adoptions a better one,  even the one who was pro abortion could admit that adoption with all the families that are  looking for children to adopt, that's probably a preferable solution to pregnancies that were  planned. But he said I'm still for having abortion available, etc. But he got them to agree upon several different key things. And so much so that they left there feeling more warm about  each other. Now in our world today in the United States, I'm I'm I'm I'm taping these sessions  in in 2018, and April of 2018. Right now, we have Donald Trump as our president and we have people who are avid and and vocal supporters of Donald Trump, and we have those who can't  stand him. And Oprah Winfrey recently did the thing where she got the two different groups  together in a room and they talk together. And they find that such a valuable thing as they  look for Win Win plans, activities for them for the future, that they kept the group going and  now many of them are running for office has been something that's been tracked in our news  over here in the United States. So when you're dealing with your people look for Win win if  they're opposed to something well talk about it work through new decisions by saying okay,  what can we agree on what what what is common ground, so that involves including others in your journey as you move toward a preferable future. And then that last point there is when  you're at this level, you have to deal with difficult people and circumstances quickly. I have  one a negative evaluation in my ministry in California. And back then, for evaluation we input  was given from people who reported to us as well as other staff people as well as people in  the congregation and people who are among the elders, etc. Well, the people on staff gave  me low marks in several areas, because there was tension in the office. And I kept expecting  the operations manager to take care of it. Well, really, it was my responsibility to make sure  that the thing went smoothly. And so I let things go and let things go until finally people were  just sick of it, and they hated coming to work. Now, this is tough, I don't like confrontation,  generally speaking, most people don't. But there are times if you've got a problem, you got to deal with it, don't let it fester. And if that problem is a person, you really got to deal with it.  Because that can spread poison and will affect your effectiveness as a leader, not just here.  But if you are in that organization at other levels, this is the type of thing that can come back  to bite you. So position, permissions, the next level is production. And permission side people  will come and work for you and follow your leadership because they like it, it feels good to be 

at work, it feels good to be part of something that with these people, at this level, people will  come because something great is happening. Now, this is where things begin to roll as the  Holy Spirit begins to work or as business starts to improve, that your leadership level expands greatly. As you provide leadership that results in the product, whatever it is in your business  or church, the church begins to grow, or people begin to experience spiritual growth or the  youth ministry begins to flourish and and people are joining the kids are coming to faith,  whatever it means for you to flourish. This is the area where all of a sudden your leadership  will expand rapidly. Its production. In fact, I love the story about a company that hired a guy to do a new job he had been at those first two levels, positional and permission, but now they  wanted to move him up into this idea of production. And so they gave him a chance as a  salesperson to go to a new field in the United States, and sell their product. While he wasn't  there very long, he sent a metal memo back to his supervisor. And this is what the memo  looked like, said I seen this outfit with that he never bought a dimes worth of nothing from us.  And I sold him some goods. I'm now going to Chicago. Supervisor reads this and says, this is  terrible. This is awful English. How do we get somebody like this who's advanced this fire in  the organization. And he had determined to to fire him. Except the next day, he got a memo,  another memo from the guy and he says I come here and sold them half a million. Well, now  he's got this blooming producer. And still felt like got a fire because the guy doesn't know how to spell doesn't know English language does know how to write well. And so he bought it,  dumped it into the lap of the president of the company. And he said, Look, I got this problem,  look at look at these two memos. And look, the president looked at it and said, but look at  what he's producing. And so the next day, on a bulletin board in the company, those two  memos from the salesperson were there, along with one for the president of the company.  And he said this, we've been trying too much, spending too much time trying to spell instead  of trying to sell let's watch those sales I want everybody should read these letters from  Gooch, who was on the road doing a great job for us. And you should go out and do like he  done. You see if you have if you have produced, if the organization, you're part of the part of  the organization, you're a part of begins to thrive, people will see people will notice your  leadership, acceptance will grow in the organization. Now, if you are at this level, accept  responsibility for growth, accept responsibility for the fact that you now have responsibility for these people under you. Accept responsibility, not credit. Now, it's easy to to accept the  credit. But it's very important at this level that the credit goes to the team. And you find that  with Mark Zuckerberg, recently, the CEO, not the CEO, but the founder of Facebook, appeared before Congress because they let some information get leaked out and it was used by another organization without their permission. But the 87 million people something like that their their material was share their information was shared. But he went to Congress here and appeared  before Congress to testify and he said it's my responsibility. It's my responsibility. We didn't do what we ought to do. It's my responsibility. And yet, when you hear him talk about the good  things that Facebook has done and accomplished, and the growth that it's experienced, he'll  always talk about his team of people. So we accept responsibility for the growth of the  organization and the problems, it's at this level that you are become responsible for  developing a statement of purpose, a mission statement, which we'll talk about more next  time for, in a little ways up, when we start talking about vision, you develop accountability for results, people who report to you, you want them accountable in some way. So you do  develop a system for that to happen. It becomes your responsibility at this level to  communicate the strategy and vision and you become a change agent, looking at the culture  more closely and and define how is it going to change in the next two to three to five years.  And it's at this level that you have to start understanding timing. As far as when people are  ready for something to be introduced, that is new, some things need to be put off. And they  aren't ready for it. I remember when I first introduced drama into the church I was part of in  California. And there was just such a negative reaction to it that we began introducing, as  many churches were back then this is the late 80s. Many churches were moving to dramatic  kind of skits during the worship service. And so we were trying that out. And I had a group of  people who have committed themselves to but the the reaction was so negative that I  realized the timing was not right. Now, three years later, as we gave them some small ideas 

about what that could look like, it went better. When we change the worship style, we had a  very traditional worship style when I went there. And yet we realized that if we were going to  reach the next generation for Jesus Christ, we had to change that. And so we gradually would  change it. But sometimes we'd have to step back a little bit, and not move too fast, because  the people weren't coming with us. And so you know, how could we keep the people moving  forward, and yet, move forward. And so you have to understand timing at this level. People  Development is the next one. Once you get to that level of production, you are somebody  who can begin looking for and investing in people. Now, this is where people don't just admire what you're able to produce, but they become loyal to you in the organization. And so this is  where you identify people, key leaders that need to have more development that you're going to lean on. And this is where you become more, as I've said before, moving from a shepherd  where you're doing everything you have connected with everyone to a rancher, and that  you're responsible for the organization. But there now are levels within that organization. And  you're developing ways where key leaders are going to step in and take responsibility for one  or another part of the organization. This is a crucial level. I found out in the study several  years ago now about church planters, that church planters tend to have a kind of a  personality, they're entrepreneurs, and they're willing to step out and take great risks. And it's a wonderful thing to see church planters do that. But they found that there's a pattern with  many of them who are not willing to go to this level of leadership. Because what would  happen is the church would grow, and it will grow usually until about 200. And at that point,  the church planter was trying to do everything Yet, and and he still had not adjusted his  leadership style to go to the next growth barrier. 200 is a growth barrier within churches, it's  really tough for churches to break that. And then about every 200 after that as a growth  barrier. So they would get to about 200 churches under entrepreneurial leadership. And  unless that leader had begun to give responsibility to some key other leaders, the church  would then decline, there'll be some kind of crisis and it'll go back to 100. But then it would go back up to 200. And they, they, they watched people who were doing this research, just  watch that possible that process go as this wave would go up, up and down and up and down. The churches that made it and went beyond the 200 barrier, the 400 barrier and beyond,  were led by leaders who realized that they had to give responsibility to other people. And so  they were identifying key people. Now, so what do you do if you're at this level, well you place a priority on identifying and equipping leaders under you? Now I put in red there, danger,  choosing low. This is an idea that was was made popular by Bill Hybels. And what he did was  he said, you know, let's say that there's a scale of one to 10, as far as skill in leadership and  potential for future leadership. And so let's say you're, you're a really great leader, you're at a nine on that scale or an eight, let's make you an eight. If you're an eight on that scale, what  you tend to do is look for leaders who are sixes or fives, you tend to look at those who aren't  as good a leader as you and eventually when those people as the organization grows, have to hire people to help them accomplish the mission and vision, they will be looking for fourths, or threes. And down on until pretty soon, you've got people who aren't leading, they're  managing, they're just managing the organization. And so he says, you know, if you're an  eight, you've got to be looking for eights and nines of people that you can develop. And yes,  you'll probably lose them, they may go to another organization sometime, but that's the kind  of people who can move the organization forward. So don't choose low, be a model for others  to follow, send key people to growth opportunities, send them to seminars, classes, things  that will help them see other leaders. So a friend of mine sent his key people to another  church, where they pay staff people in their area of responsibility at a church that's larger and has more influence than they do. They pay a person on staff there to mentor them. And that's one of the ways he makes sure these key people are growing, and develop an inner core of  people who complement your strengths. You don't want people who are all like you as far as  personality, etc. So that's the fourth level this idea of people development. It's a, it's a key  area, once again, this is where an organization can explode once the leadership begins to  become diffuse, with key leaders who are expanding their areas in ministry. And then finally,  the final level. Is that a personhood? And this is where people will follow you just because of  who you are. And I put Billy Graham's picture up there. Because he's somebody who I think, is

a great model of that. You know, Billy Graham started and started an organization with  through all of these steps of leadership, but today, people listened to him, not because he's  out there speaking back, he just recently died. Not because he's out there speaking, but but  they'll come and wisdom from Him because of who he is. Jimmy Carter, one of our former  presidents has done a marvelous job of being a past president. And people come to him,  because that's just who he is. He's somebody who's wise, he's, he's older. So it takes years, it  takes a lifetime to get to this level. But some people do it. And you can think of people in your life that you know of who you'd say, yeah, I, I know who they are, they demonstrated over a  long period of time, dependability, of faithfulness, and, and so that's the kind of people I want  to follow if they have any thing that their vision that they're trying to fulfill in their life. So  those are the five levels. Now, in each of these levels, here's a summary. People will follow  you remember, leadership is at its core influence toward a new vision, though, you'll have  influence with people at the position level, because you have a title and they have to follow  you at the permission level. It's based on relationships, that's they'll follow you and follow you because they want to because they like you production. They'll follow you because of success. They see something happening and they want to they want to do what you do. They want to  act the way you act because you're successful in people development. The key is  reproduction of yourself and other people. And they will follow you because of what you are  doing with them and investing in them and caring about them. And then the last one  personhood, the key is respect. They respect you and they'll follow you because of what you  have done. Now, if you come to understand these five levels, it is going to help you be a more effective leader if you can understand where you are, which level you're on. And those key  things about okay, what can you do to start moving up that scale to become a more effective  and a leader with broader influence? And then the kingdom will be built because cultures will  be changed, and God will be glorified.