Video Transcript: Dealing with Fallen Sexuality: Teaching in the Old Testament

Henry - So we're back. Now we noticed and learned that the fall of humanity with deep,  piercing complete, it affected their brains, our brains. What in Jesus Christ is the only hope.  And we see that in the whole story of redemption, that without Jesus Christ in the world, in  the basic nature of humanity, things probably got pretty crazy. And we noticed that the Bible  does not hide away the truth, even when it comes to, like Bible characters and patriarchs, you see that there's an honesty by which the Bible sees this, and the perspective toward it, as it  does not relate to the Genesis 2 perspective, even though it's unclear what to necessarily do  about it or fix it. And as ministers, you will come in contact with people who know, some  stories in the Old Testament. And if you need to be aware of how to talk about these stories,  and what these stories mean, because somebody and we both experienced this, where  people will go like, well, did you know that? You know, Abraham, and we're gonna go on all  these passages. Right? So for the purposes of ministry, let's just do a survey and talk about  dealing with the Fallen sexuality in the Old Testament. And then we'll go into the New  Testament, because these are all pieces to know as ministers and in ministry, or as an act of  Christian who wants to witness to your friends. So let's begin our journey.  

Pam - Okay, polygamy, and already Genesis 4:19, Lamech, one of Cain's descendants marry  two women, one named Adah, and the other Zillah.  

Henry - So what's interesting about this is you can see like that, that North Star of a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife. So you see that design is that you'd be  married to one person, right? And that would be what it is. And then we're see already the  chapter after the fall, that Lamech has two wives in the story of Lamech is interesting to me, I don't want to get too much into it. But this really story of power and intrigue, and his children  are all these like super humans, you know, his daughter sent da, which means beauty. So you  see the world is, you see, like, you see Jubal and he's in the entertainment and all musical  instruments are, you know, from him, we see. And then you see, let's see, there's some other  Tubal-Cain, industry, you know, you have all of these things. And in the early culture, they  lived a long periods of time, and they also had the pre fallen piece of us the reasoning, they  had desire to do things, but they also had the desire to be powerful, and in control. And, you  know, it became, you know, a, you know, power, pleasure all mixed. You know, there was a  movie called In Time, a while ago that came out and said, like, you could buy extra time. And  so, the very powerful would buy all this time, and all these people who didn't have the time  only live, like 30 years, but the people who are the powerful lived hundreds of years, but then  the most powerful, powerful becomes so powerful, they become corrupt. If that was just the  Hollywood movie, like 10 years ago, and I thought that was kind of an interesting way to look  at that. But well, we can  

Pam - see that maybe, yeah, evil power and pleasure. In Genesis 6:4-6, the Nephilim were on  the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God went to the daughters of  men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old man, every now the Lord saw  how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination that the  thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. The Lord was grieved that he had made man  on the earth and his heart was filled with pain. And we go on in that passage, and God starts  over with no weapon.  

Henry - You know, I looked through that Pam in the original Hebrew words because you know,  the phylum and you know, all of that and, and it really came down to what are you doing in  the bushes? It became where the the thoughts, control, abuse, sexual pleasure, and what was happening to humanity is unimaginable, but even by today's standards, and to the point  where God himself is grieved, that he even started the whole enterprise, right? Yeah. Well,  you know, in some ways, then, you know, I am not surprised how evil our world is. Right? And  how and, um, that we know later, that God's shortens the length of days. And I think some of  these political leaders and I, we don't get into politics around here, but you can just imagine  if, you know, some successful political leader live three, four or 500 years, right? And how 

long time Yes. Right. And what cuz that becomes, so is gracious, we read the Bible, and we  won't get into it today. But God shortens all the days in for our benefit. You know, are we need again, this is all before Jesus Christ comes. But that tendency, the fall intensity remains in  everybody even now. So let's talk about what other passages in the Bible talk about.  

Pam - All right, homosexual abuse, Genesis 19:5, they call it to Lot. Where are the men who  came to you tonight, bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them. And these were the men of the city. And then Judges 19:22, while they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the cities surrounded in the house pounding on the door, they shouted to the  old man who own the house, bring out the man who came to your house, so we can have sex  with him.  

Henry - Okay, so in both those cases, those are cases of homosexual abuse. Right, you know,  where you have in the first case, it's really the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. And so to say that the marriage understanding even in the creational understanding of Sodom was  going away. Where sexual relationships, you know, because because for many generations,  marriage Right away became an institution. And then it's remained institution, in most  general societies. It's almost on the creational heart of people, that marriage should be a  thing, right? You know, the Roman Empire, you know, really tried to have an ideal of marriage  in their pagan way. Even though they did not live up to that, by all means, they had all sorts  of departures from it. But there was something so but in the Old Testament, we're beginning  to see that, you know, your understanding of your sexuality. Changes from that pattern, the  biblical worldview, one man, one woman, right. Then incest, I mean, there's incest in the  Bible, to be that I've heard that. There's incest in the Bible.  

Pam - Yeah, Genesis 19:34-36. The next day, the older daughter said to the younger, last  night, I lay with my father, let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father. So they got their father to drink  wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him again, he was not  aware of it when she laid down or when she got up, so both of Lot's daughters became  pregnant by their father.  

Henry - So what's the context of that story?  

Pam - That's right after Sodom and Gomorrah, and they have fled from the city, and Lot's wife looked back and turn to a pillar of salt. So died, and they were the three who survived. Were  in a cave. So they're hiding in a cave. Yes.  

Henry - Now I find it so interesting. It's not just the incest. It's how a Lot drunk on wine so  quickly, would have sex with a woman whether he would know it to be his daughter or not,  like what fallen. You know, like, okay, there's a lot I mean, so it's like, Oh, is that I mean, I  mean, I maybe I've underestimated the depth of fallen sexuality. But that story, makes me  realize that it's pretty in depth. This one has always interested me.  

Pam - Wife sharing Genesis 12:17-19. But the Lord inflicted serious diseases on Pharaoh and  his household because of Abraham's wife, Sarai. So Pharaoh summoned Abram, what have  you done to me? He said, Why didn't you tell me she was your wife? Why did you say she is  my sister, so that I took her to be my wife. Now then here is your wife take her and go. So  what's that? Well, it was a famine in the land. And so he goes to Egypt to so they can survive  the famine. And then his wife was beautiful. He told her to say she was his sister, and he  would say the same. And  

Henry - it's a really smart prostitution, so that he can think of his own selfish survival. Yeah,  oh, yeah, they bought into it. And that's another thing. If they sold it, I know what happens  again, right? With Abimelech or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So but my, my question was, 

okay, so the sexuality must be pretty fallen, because it wasn't like they had a conference, we  may not live. Well, here we have a plan. No, it's almost as if it's just okay. You say that you do  that? And she just agrees to it. So then that brings up the question, What else was happening  even in the patriarchy? Now again, they are justified by faith. We do see that right. And so  

Pam - the fall is happened. God, no, everybody's,  

Henry - everybody's fallen. Yeah. So he's not going to make the social justice of sexual purity,  the road to salvation. He's going to redeem us from sexuality. Right. But I just, we're great.  Yeah. I'm saying this is ministers, we need to have a clear theological understanding of how is this in the Bible? And how is it that Abraham shared his wife? Now, again, we could talk about  the extent to which these circumstances but the mocker will just go in say, well, sharings,  okay. On the Abraham shared his wife, you know, I mean, the mocker will, instead of right,  yes. They both because their survival well, so they have financial difficulties. And I say, hey,  you know, what we're really doing, we're behind there in our mortgage. You know, what?  Dear, I know a guy who wants to sleep with you, like Abraham. These are stories and things  that comes out, right, that this is, you know, we must be as ministers aware of these things.  Yes. Or this one is really  

Pam - hard to blame sexual relations. Genesis 16:3. So after Abram had been living in Canaan, 10 years there, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian maid servant Hagar, and gave her to her  husband to be his wife.  

Henry - Okay, so what's that story about now?  

Pam - Well, yes, Sarai has not been able to get pregnant. So she's thinking given them what  from Egypt, this lady from my wife Sarai sharing occurred. Yeah, so then she thinks, well, we  gotta make this God's promised us an heir. Well, let's make this happen. You sleep with the  slave instead of waiting God for the promise for them? Yeah, well, did we do that worse? Oh,  well, visiting prostitutes. Genesis 38:13, when Tamar was told your father in law is on his way  to Timna to shear his sheep. And then later on, later on, in that same chapter 15 and 16  When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute for she had covered her face, not  realizing that she was his daughter in law, he went over to her by the roadside and said,  Come now, let me sleep with you. And what will you give me to sleep with you?  

Henry - What, what is that about?  

Pam - Well, he had the sons, three sons, and the first dies. So then the second son married  Tamar Tamar. This is the daughter in law, and  

Henry - then that we're owning that story. Get her pregnant, so he, like his seed would go.  

Pam - He died. And then is there another brother after that to happen? Again? Yeah, I think  there's there's the husband and two other brothers. And so then the youngest brother, I  mean, this is Judah, Shelah is is too young. And so he says to her, you go home, your family  and when he's old enough, I'll give it to you, but he doesn't do it. And so she is now getting  older. He has nothing she can't remarry. She she can, you know, move on in any way that  she's bound to them. So he takes things into her hands here. And I  

Henry - again go back to look at how Judah. No, just like come sleep with me. I mean, there  wasn't a question. Yeah, like, you know, I really shouldn't be messing with prostitutes here.  Right? But, and he really wanted her because he had no money. So he has to go and arrange  of payment to be later. Right, which is how then everything comes out. Yeah. And then how's  that story end then? 

Pam - I mean, well, she gets pregnant from him. Right? With twins. Right? And then they're in  line, right?  

Henry - Stories were that I know, ministry, because how many stories how many children were born, quote, illegitimate way that is out of marriage or through abuse. And we at Christian  leaders know, it's a lot of you. And this story, yeah, the mocker can say, well look at the story, that, you know, they weren't so perfect, and they're Judah is with the prostitutes, but for  God's purposes, that she has twins in one of those twins, is in the line of Jesus Christ. So  whatever, however you got to this earth into your position, and yes, the ideal was one man,  one woman in marriage. But whatever your situation is, God redeems. God has plans and  purposes. And as ministers, we're always here encouraging that God is at work. We're not  judging people, that's God's business, but God's businesses also to redeem. So, you know,  and again, these are these questions like, somebody will say to me, Well, you know, you allow Christian leaders Institute and College and we allow anyone to take classes, even if they don't agree with the exact marriage, understand worldviews, sexuality and all the other things. We  say take classes. Why is because we don't know what God has. We're not going to judge  anybody. All we know is that God has a plan, in this case, out of a prostitute relationship  where there is a lot of harm and injury, gone doing care.  

Pam - Well, right when she found pregnant and they're, they're gonna, they're gonna see us.  And then when she says, she says, Judah, his staff and his other I can't think of the name of  the other items to back to him and says, I am pregnant. That's right. He, she says, I'm  pregnant by the man who owns these and he sees them, he goes, Oh, she's more righteous  than I am. And so he takes her in.  

Henry - I have observed, Jesus had this in his ministry when they brought before the woman  caught in adultery. And that's a very impactful scene. And it's fascinating how God uses most  surprising people, for ministry purposes. And he loves his children. And in, in this area in this  story, we see it's a power, it's powerful thing. Well, let's continue all right.  

Pam - All right, fallen sexuality in the Old Testament Bible. Sexual intimacy and pleasure has a twisted history and the Old Testament many today laugh at the book of Leviticus, but it was  needed. Abraham was willing to share his wife sexually twice, Isaac did it once, Lot's  daughters slept with their father Judah with Tamar. Only Joseph showed some restraint, but  that might have been because she was forbidden. The Israel populace was pretty sexually  broken to Old Testament, many specifics are mentioned in Leviticus, laws that were  transforming a nation of slaves into a people. These laws were very specific, and many of  them are honored today in most places in the world as self evident practices.  

Henry - It's interesting. A lot of people look at the book of Leviticus and again, they mock, you know, Christianity, because the book gets very specific. And it's written, God gives the law to  the people of Israel who were freed up from Egypt. And we know from the study of history,  that Egypt was a highly sexed culture of all sorts of practices that they were outside of  marriage and just some really strange practices. And we know that and so then the people of  Israel are now slaves in their, in their cultural. It's a cultural branding, like their practices and  behaviors were very fallen. And we can see that in the patriarchs have that, but then the  people become slaves. It continues on.  

Pam - So my commentary on why Leviticus was needed. Judges 19, you want to go ahead and set the context.  

Henry - Okay, so, so, now this this whole story, this go back story of judges is now after the  people are brought into the promised land, the conquest of the land, right? So they got the  laws, and all of that, and the Leviticus was given, right? Okay, so there was a way in which 

things were looked at. And then there's a story in the tribe of Benjamin, where a Levite goes  into a home of Benjamin town. And this becomes like, well, let's just read what happens.  

Pam - All right. So Judges 19:25-30, but the men would not listen to him. Because they had  asked that they could sleep with that we had that passenger. Oh, yeah. First of all, they want  it they want. Yeah, it was asleep. That was right, the homosexual abuse.  

Henry - And then then the man at the home said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. My, um,  you can  

Pam - have well, that's coming now. So they won't listen to him. He said, you don't want to do  this is what he says to them. And so then the man took his concubine, leave her outside to  them. No, this is the man who is the host, I think, isn't it? No. The Levite sent the concubine  out? Okay, I missed that.  

Henry - The man was going to offer his daughter or the over the Levite's concubine. Okay,  check it out yourself. Yeah. You know, I'm kind of wanting to look right now. I'd love to  understand these stories. Okay, so anyways, this is my editor. I get to be married to my lover  and best friends. But my editor and CLI would not be here today, in my opinion, if God hadn't  brought us together, so I just love the whole thing. Okay, so let's get back to  

Pam - alright. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them and they raped her and abused her throughout the night and it dawn they let her go at daybreak, the woman  went back to the house where her master was staying fell down at the door and lay there until daylight when her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and  stepped out to continue on his way. There lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the  house. With her hands on the threshold, he said to her get up, let's go. But there was no  answer than the man put her on his donkey and set out for home. When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb into 12 parts and sent them into all areas  of Israel. Everyone who saw it said such a thing is never been seen or done not since the days the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Think about it, consider it, tell us what to do.  

Henry - So terrible thing and in you can read the story on your own if you believe I believe you should read the surah on your own. It was believed by okay. So, but notice every once in a  while. Okay. So, notice, too, that the pointing was since the days that the people came out of  Egypt, right? So the people of Israel were in a bad way, when they were redeemed out of  Israel. And what helped them get into a better way was the giving of the law, right? So it was  Leviticus, the Book  

Pam - of Leviticus outlines laws in the context of those ancient peoples most of the laws  completely make sense. That trend is to default to more and more wickedness.  

Henry - Okay, so let's just go over, in in I believe we ought to in ministry purposes, again,  practices in Leviticus,  

Pam - with an animal in Leviticus 18:23, do not have sexual relations with an animal and  defile yourself with it. And a woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual  relations with it. That is a perversion. But you stepmother do not have sexual relations with  your father's wife that you would dishonor your father, with siblings or step siblings do not  have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter were whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere and they start from Leviticus 18.  Child abuse, Leviticus 18:10, do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your  daughter's daughter that would dishonor you. close family relations do not have sexual  relations with your father's sister. She is your father's close relative. Do not have sexual  relations with your mother's sister because she is your mother's close relatives. Family incest 

do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She's your mother  do not have relations with her do not have sexual relations with your daughter in law. She's  your son's wife do not have relations with her. Do not have sexual relations with your  brother's wife that would dishonor your brother do not have sexual relations with a with both  a woman and her daughter do not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her  daughter's daughter. They are her close relatives that is wickedness. Leviticus 20 Verse 18. If  a man lies with a woman during her monthly period, and has sexual relations with her he has  expose the source of her flow, and has also uncovered it, both of them must be cut off from  their people.  

Henry - Now the last one I threw in there a little extra because the Leviticus laws really  brought a cleanliness and health. It wasn't just like the laws about sexual relations. And some  people will say, well, in Leviticus, we don't listen to Leviticus because there's Yeah, and  they're in there are a lot this is the larger books than that. Well. It is. A few yeah, here, here's  my one  

Pam - male homosexuality do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman that is detestable,  do not have adultery, do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile  yourself with her.  

Henry - And you know, so what we have here is really Leviticus and we went over the list in  there by the whale a lot more ways to describe it, we were commenting on that, when we  were looking at this. And going back to that one passage where it not since the days the  people of Israel came out of Egypt, were things done like this, right? And then and then in  Leviticus, we're seeing the things that are done like this. And what I find fascinating is that the people of Israel had become very worldly, they had no concept of God whatsoever. And when  you have no concept of God whatsoever, what starts happening is what we're seeing in this  world today. So what we're going to see is sort of incredible, strange things. And much of  pornography is getting into all these weird scenarios and all of that, that, you see that, you  know, without Jesus Christ, there's no end to where sexual perversion can go and sexual  immorality. So as a minister, so now, you've just had to endure all of this. Why? Well, because  God will save people out of all of these things, and transform them. And when people point in  mock the Old Testament and all of that stuff, you know, what's the ministry response?  Minister's responses is, Yeah, there'll be like, and I have shared this many times I want  evangelists, because, because that's a common thing. Like, well, you know, in Leviticus, it  talks about women's periods. Yeah. You know, you said, yeah, yeah. I mean, their goal was the cleanliness laws and all of these things. And, and actually, the period thing even goes before,  that was early culture. That's a cultural thing. That does one thing that went to the book of  Genesis, where I think it was, was it Rachel heightened her idols or whatever? Right. Yeah. So  this uses period, you know, so. So, it's, it's, so it comes off a little lame to, like, I'm not, I'm  gonna say, hidden in the bushes from God, because of this, or what happens in the Old  Testament talks about incest. And, you know, we're the people of Israel engagement. Yeah,  they are aware. And that's why the law was given. And these laws still are self evident today.  Now, there's debate about homosexuality right now. And I understand that and we're not here to solve all of those issues. But we do see that that was not one man, one woman and that is  the Christian brand, and we're not going to run away from it. You know, and I want to be really clear. Some of you have come to your sexual journey abused, to the point where  homosexuality is an option that you have taken on your life and we're not going To judge you  on anything, but we know that Jesus Christ, the worldview of one man, one woman, sexuality  is the design. So you know, we want to be, we want to say to everyone that God has a plan  for you in this very difficult subject. So, in ministry, wrap it all up. We could go on to more of  the Old Testament, there are actually more passages that you probably ought to know. Like  the whole story of David and Bathsheba. And Psalm 51. David confesses sexual sin when  adultery you could, we mentioned that a previous class to read all about Jonadab. And in that  case of Jonadab, he got Amnon to sleep with his half sister. So incest and they were far away 

from the Levitical laws. We also know that God in sort of a very interesting twist of things, ask, ask, Hosea to take on a prostitute named named Gomer as his wife, which seems to just be  very confusing, like everything that's happening in the Old Testament, and then the whole  prophet is asked to marry a prostitute who in this prostitute was not like a willing candidate to be saved out of a prostitution. And yet, that's all in the Old Testament. Yeah, so. So God works for people where they're at and has a better plan. That brings us back to the pre fall  understanding of our sexuality and marriage and sexuality and marriage worldview. So we  could get into it, but this lecture would go,  

Pam - we could go into the whole way. He married Gomer, which was to kind of show how God felt about his relationship with Israel. Yes. Because they were like the prostitute. They kept  touring after other nations and as it's been called, in the scriptures, and, and so, right, yeah,  but I see  

Henry - that the mockers will say they won't get to the part leadership. They'll just say, look at that. Oh, God, we can do that. But that's to know the book of Hosea is about Yeah, this is how  you know things happen. So now you've seen the Old Testament. Next we're gonna talk about the New Testament take on human sexuality and sexual intimacy.