Video Transcript: Real Life Example 4

All right, welcome back, we're looking at the seven connections of a marriage,  we got two people that want to get married in 43 days. It's good that we're doing  this. So, in Session Four, we're looking at how a couple is connected verbally or  the whole area of communication. So a little teaching before we get started,  number one, men and women are different from the book, the language of love  by Gary Smalley, which is a great book to read a study about the verbal  difference between men and women. So you can just fill the blank here. 100%,  and they did this study, they watched the girls and boys play, you know, young  girls and boys play 100% of the girls sounds were words 68% of the boys  sounds were words, and 32% were sound effects. You know, the motor, car  motor sounds or shooting guns or whatever boys do. Next one, a man speaks  1200 words a day on average. And a woman speaks 3000 words a day. That's  on average. I don't know if that reflects your relationship or not? It just might. So  can you think of what that might mean in a relationship? Or how that how that  affects the relationship. I think because listening is so important. I think for me  as a talkative outgoing person, I can maybe talk too much not listen enough.  Because I think that can affect okay. I would agree with them, something new, I  would say like, ever, like a lot of the time in terms of like planning our days, I feel like you do a lot of like the scheduling and a lot of talking to people and stuff.  And I just kind of tag along with you tend to do more with the planning. And  there's been some, some married couples where they find this frustrating,  especially, let's say the woman will find it frustrating that, you know, both go to  work and do their thing. And then they meet together at night. And then the guy  has nothing to say. But let's say he's been at work. And he's got a job where he  interacts with people. He's already used his 1200 words. Now he comes home,  he's like done, and he has nothing left for the home front. And I think that's true  for a lot of guys. And then the woman is kind of frustrated, because you know,  you use all your words and everyone else. I see you at work, I see you on the  phone, and you have all these things to say. But here with me, you just want to  sit and watch TV or whatever it is. But that's part of the problem that men  generally have been raised. Not to be as verbal. A lot of men aren't as good with words. And a lot of women are better with words and writing words and saying  words. So just understanding those differences that, you know, we're not exactly the same person, so we have to deal with some of them. Alright, number two  men and women have different speaking styles. And these are just generalities.  Silence, you know, they can be people that don't say a whole lot. minimalists,  they use words only when necessary. So what are the kids doing today are very  matter of fact, but not elaborating on anything. Then there are people who like to say things once. I'm sort of that way, if I said at one time, I get annoyed if  someone asked me the same question again, or something that I already  explained yesterday, and now you're asking again, and it's like, I said it already?  And, you know, I have to be then more gracious because you said it, but I wasn't

listening, or there were a lot of things or I forgot or whatever. But on the other  hand, you know, the other person has to understand that that's my natural  inclination. And so you know, understand why I'm annoyed, right? Average, you  know, like general conversation and then on and on people that like to talk a lot.  So how would you think how would you rate each other and yourself? And it  might be a combination at certain times. I think you would either be at say it  once or average you're definitely not like an animal like we we talk a lot with  each other and I've never felt like oh my goodness what you just talk to me,  man. Like, sometimes I had it where I'm like one of the unknown conversation  I'm talking about. So I think you definitely like talking enough, but I wouldn't say  you're an honor. No, I definitely. I was gonna say for me, I think I'm gonna say it  once typically, but I can't. But I think for you, you're You tend to be average, but  you can be on and on, like when you're on someone and I'm like, How can you  talk to someone. And it's like 30 minutes in and you're just getting started. It's  like for me on a phone call, it's like three minutes is like my, like my maximum. I  need to like, even again, even with what I have to do here, so like, if I meet  someone, I don't know, like, I feel like a lot of sense. I have to be the one to  keep it going. So like any topic, I feel like I need to be able to talk about. So  yeah, I think with you, I'm probably like average, but a lot of times like with other  people. Okay, all right. Number three, listening style. So that was your speaking  style, listening style, empathetic, that someone who listens, and they, they just  enjoy listening. They, they really want to get something out of it. Really? Can  you tell me more than you know, they're really enjoying or sad. They really feel  it. The next one is attentive. Listen to the whole body. Yeah, tell me more and  listens just enough to get a topic from which to launch one's own talk. So that'd  be my father was like that. He'd asked a question of me. So what are you doing  these days? And then I would launch into what I'm doing. And then he would  pick something? Oh, yeah. When I was young, I love that he goes on to his long  story. And so his question really was just, I just want to hear enough to find a  topic that I can talk about. Well, after time, you know that right? And so you're,  you're not enthusiastic about answering any question. Okay, so the next one is  hit or miss. Sometimes Listen, well, sometimes not. The next one jumped to  conclusions. I'm probably more wired that way. If someone was saying in talking  a lot, it's like, okay, I got your point about two minutes ago. And it's, but it's  jumping to conclusions. I like assuming, from whatever you said, I get the whole  picture. And I'm making a huge assumption about that. And maybe I am getting  the whole picture. But a lot of times you miss subtleties. Because you're it's a  lack of patience, right? Time to listen to all that. Because most of it is redundant. I got it. But, you know, a lot of times if I was a good listener would realize, okay,  there is a lot of repeated and a lot of stuff. But there might be gold somewhere in there. And you have to pan through gravel to get to it. How would you how  would you how do you think about yourself? Like harder actually, easier for me, 

really. Clinical jumped to conclusions kind of guy. Like, I guess someone's  talking to me, like my goal is like, first 10 seconds just to get an understanding of where they're at. And then if like they say something that reaffirms that I'm like,  and like I just had that yesterday, and like my sister came up to me, and they're  talking to me, and we talked, I thought like, it was one minute. I'm like, Oh, she's just, and then she started to go into this whole story about this whole nother  picture. And I'm like, Whoa, you know, and then I realized I had to be, you know,  I had to be attentive to write a really, because it was way beyond what I thought.  And so I feel like it's really easy for me to just jump to a conclusion. And that is  fair, like, I mean, you definitely can be a really good listener. But I think that you  tend to want to, like solve things. If I'm going and I'm telling you something, I  think you want to jump on, like all conversations about solving problems. Yeah.  Yeah.conversations about solving problems, targets like, Oh, I know what you're  trying to I like, I can typically come up with my solution to what they're talking  while they're talking. I know you're like, I already know the answer. I'm gonna  give I'm just waiting. I feel like I feel like it's like the person. Like I feel like  sometimes like, like I said, I try to be empathetic, but I don't always like I have  jumped to conclusions many times when I felt like I was like, Listen longer. And I think that like sometimes I guess maybe then hit or miss for me because, like, I  listened really well. And like, I remember something. Wow. Like you remember  that? Like, you really listened you know? And then sometimes I'm like, you  know, I just had that thing about like, she felt like I really was not being genuine  when I was asked her things and so I was like, I was not listening well to her  apparently because I was not being interpreted right. So I think I'm a little bit of  hit or miss, but I really try to be empathetic when I listen to people. I do feel like  a lot of times like if someone's really joyful like that, I'll really feel that and be like along with Arthur really sad. Okay. So let's go that next number four conflict.  There's it there tense between a disagreement and conflict disagreement is a  difference of opinion. And you really want to cultivate that in a relationship, you  want to have difference of opinion. Because if you have the same opinion and  everything, then one of you isn't necessary. Two people together, you have a  thought, I have a thought, and now we have a discussion. And we can go  somewhere with that, and I might change my opinion, or I may not. Or we may  come up with a third thing that we both learn and figure out. So differences of  opinion are really a good thing. In a relationship. Conflict is disagreement with  anger. So now, it's not just a disagreement, it's disagreement with an anger  thing. And then things go south causes the most conflict, people do not feel  understood. So that's the listening thing. I feel like you're not really listening and  you're jumping to conclusions, you don't really understand where I'm coming  from, that leads to anger, people do not feel appreciated. So if in general, in a  relationship, you know, one doesn't feel appreciated than then the natural  disagreements that everyone has slip into conflict, because there's this 

underneath, you don't appreciate me. So I'm already disposed towards an anger thing. And now we have a disagreement, where we could just argue about it and talk about it wouldn't be a good thing. But now that there's this anger piece, or  people don't feel loved. So you know, underneath all, communication is a good  relationship, where, you know, I really want to understand you, appreciate you  love you, that has to be the center of it for all the communication techniques we  talked about, will come to nothing. If someone's feeling not appreciated, then  everything else that we're going to talk about, it's not going to work. Alright, so  typical conflict management style, some people develop their own ways of  dealing with conflict, you know, where there's some anger and so on. So here's  five of them. There's the Eskimo style, which is sort of the silent treatment cold,  you know, I have this issue with you, but I'm not going to tell you what it is. I'm  just not going to be nearly silent. I want you to figure it out. The next one is the  cowboy style, you shoot first and ask questions later. So now you're just just  throwing up your whole thing. And you know, you never know you don't treat me  right and unloaded it all and you're not thinking about doing it in a tactful way.  Just let it go. Lawyer style, this is more hey, let's sit down and talk about this.  But I'm a lawyer, and I have all the points and I have all the things behind what  I'm doing. And the other person is like, so I'm that in my, with my wife, I'm more  of a lawyer. And so she's not. She's more or less, you know, a fugitive or the  Eskimo style, probably. And, and so when I start lawyering, and you know, I'm a  good lawyer, so I'm like, Why should we talk about it? You don't want to talk  about it? How are we gonna solve it? We don't talk about it. Right? So now she's stuck having to talk about it. Because you know, why? Because I'm, I'm saying  all the things that manipulate things in the direction that I wanted to go. And so  whatever it takes, right and so and I say thing, and um, you know, a lawyer is  quick, you know, right away if she says an objection, I have three reasons why  that's not a good objection, right now. So then she's has to think about things  more, but she's on the stand. She just moved on to think about it. So I'm like,  pushing, pushing, pushing, and she's like retreating, retreating, retreating or, or  or when she does these things. She's just trying to get out of this situation and  doesn't say the right thing. Says something that doesn't make any sense. Well it  just snowballs into chaos, right? Then there's the dictator style, you know, it's my way or the highway and like, this is how it's going to be done. And then there's  the Fugitive style where I can't talk about so how do you relate to any of these?  Are some of these guys pretty apparent? Yeah, that's just really lawyerly. Have  you run into this job like, okay, like, here's, here's what you're saying, correct me if I'm wrong, here's what I'm saying. So I, like I differentiate the sides, either  getting my witnesses my evidence I started to get all these points that makes  sense and and then you're I feel like you tend to be more on the I'm just reacting to these accusations and do you say the wrong thing because I'm feeling like  you're saying that that's your get a really stick? I think you're absolutely if I'm 

getting this right, I was like, Hey, are we done? And you're very much gonna say that would be like me like to, like I like you will let me know when there's an  issue or what the issue is. It's like, Are you sure we're okay? Because like, I  definitely don't like just like, like throwing up my emotions. Like, I would not be  like cowboy at all. I'll get into later with you everyone follow up? I'll be like that,  too. But yeah, I agree. I think that if I'm, like, really mad. So that you can see  where, so how does that work? Right? Because if you say something, it's gonna  ramp up his lawyer thing. And then you're like, Oh, my God, I want to say thank  you. So I think I think, you know, a lawyer needs to get Eskimo I mean, that's  kind of how it goes. Right? That's my wife is were that way too, because I don't  know what it would How would work if you had two lawyers. Put on over that  one camera. So long as I was doing what you were doing, because I was like,  he's always doing this, like I can. Probably jewelry goes on and on and on.  Yeah. And that's what trials do. And then you probably need to find a judge,  right? Make it your and couples will do that. They'll do that when they go out with another couple. Right? Yeah, all of a sudden throw out stuff. And you see what I  have to deal with here. And you know, they're each making the case in front of  someone because they've got nowhere. Number five, habitual communication  time. So these are just examples like when you're married is a breakfast, there's lunches, dinners, date night, there's shared work, shared hobbies, church, Bible, study groups, sports, bedtime, during commercials, whatever. What other  habitual time, do you see as potential for enough? Because, you know, right  now, you're really motivated to spend time together, you know, live together. So  now you have to make time you have to decide, Hey, what are you going to do  tonight, and you do all that? And you have, you know, let's go out to eat every  Friday night or whatever it is. Okay. So when people get married, that now they  live together, but they still need like, these habitual times of they're actually  together, or a lot of couples are like ships passing in the night, you know, he's  here, they have different work schedules. You know, the one guy has some  friends that he does a sport thing with, and all of a sudden, you don't have those habitual times. So so if you if you thought about your relationship now, what kind of that habit? times do you spend together? I would say for sure when this on  this list would be car, right? I think we actually spent a lot of time commuting to  play it because we work at the office together. And so we will always get that  window in the morning to talk and it's nice. Like if we've been with a bunch of  people. And when we get in their car to go to like the next destination, there's a  good time to like, communicate about what's been going on. Yeah, definitely. I  think too, like, like, we both have drinks to like, study. So that's something like  that's why I'm here. Like, for those of you that are studying maybe with a spouse to like I think it is, it's a wonderful opportunity to like, spend time and even like  study dates or study dates. And like movies aren't on here, but they're not  communication time. Only sense. But it's like we talk a lot during movies. Like, 

yeah, we're actually streaming like to talk about it a lot. So those, you know, as  you go, go down the trail of marriage and after several years, that's an important thing because a lot of times people will they won't have date night anymore. We  won't do the movie thing. They just slipped out of these things. Because they're,  they're there, but they're not there. So and then they started going to bed at  different times when like to get up early when I sleep in, and soon, it's like all the things you used to do together as a habit sort of slipping away. And now there's  no real habits. It's just, you know, it's just random, what do you happen to meet  together? And I think people need to have a meeting together. Alright. So the  next thing is, well, how do you how do you deal with conflict in different listening  styles and different talking styles? So how do you know things come up in a  relationship all the time? So I want to show you a way to talk about things that,  that, you know, we have a bit of a difference of opinion. Need to solve this thing? How do you do it? So I call it the pretzel because I wanted to give it a name, a  twist to untangle something. But I wanted to, people can call whatever they  want. But, but a term that you can use to say, hey, maybe we should pretzel this. Because you're not going to do this with every disagreement you have, you're  not going to take the time for every conflict that you have to sit down and go,  Okay, let's go through this whole process. Because it takes time. And we don't  have enough time to do that with everything. So what I'm gonna, what I'm  suggesting to a couple is that you know, that you have a term and you go, you  know, I think this is one we're going to have to do this, because it's complicated,  or there's strong feelings about this. So timeout, you know, I can see we're  getting into a tennis match where I'm saying one thing, you're saying, in other  words, having this argument, I think we need to pause and go, let's do the  pretzel thing. That's why I gave it a name. So you've probably heard of this  communication term, I'm sure you are, you probably have never heard of this  communication term, because of the way that I made it up. Couples tend to  argue about the same things over and over again, without any progress often for years. So what is the pretzel conflict management? It goes like this. So step  one, one of you Person A communicates that they have a problem with the  other. Okay, so you might say, you brought up in our time before the session  about, you know, being late and being on time. So you would say, Okay, I have  this issue. That's what you would say, I have this problem related to you. Here, I  give some examples. You're always late, which makes me late. You're you rarely say words of appreciation to me, you never want to do anything with me. You  never tell me anything, you spend more time with your friends than me. Okay, so you so the one person communicates that they have this issue. Step two, the  other person, person B responds to the problem with Questions Only. So  typically, what happens is I say, you know, I have this problem or this issue that,  you know, seems like you're always late. What do you mean, I'm always late?  I'm not the one who's late. You know, I go to your house. And you're the one 

that's, you know, that's typically how it goes, right? I have a thing. And then, and  maybe I didn't state it well, or I said, you're always late, and then you want to  correct that. Right? It's like, no, that's not true. What you're saying is not true.  And I'm going to correct it right now. That's, that's, that's typically how we argue  in all of life. Someone says something. And there's some aspect of it, that isn't  true. And I'm going to correct this. But so but with the pretzel you don't want to  do this. Because here's, here's why, if you if you if you stop them. Now, they  don't get the sense that you're listening, they don't get the sense that you  understand where they're coming from. They get the sense that you're just  thinking about your own issue and your own problem. So it's like, it doesn't  matter whether they said something true or not true. It's what they think. And you want to know more about what they think. Because this might be the tip of the  iceberg. I don't know. And so I can shut you down. But then I'm not going to  really learn what this is. So this is the hard part. The hard part is to take the  abuse in some ways, because it's not true. But you don't want to say that you,  you know, I want to, but I'm like I have to be the opposite. Oh, really? Can you  tell me more about that? So here's some here's some. Could you explain more  about the problem, try to ask questions that help the other person. Explain the  problem they have with you in greater detail. Number two, why is this a problem  to? Okay. Try to ask questions that will help them explain what your actions or  words do to them in a hurtful way. So that's really hard to do because someone  has already poked you And you're really saying, Can you poke me more. But,  but it's really important that they get everything out. And so if you shut it down,  then they hold on to that. And then it comes up again a month later or a week  later. And you go through the same arguments over and over and over and over  again, because you never got to the heart of it. Number three, how does my part in this make you feel? Can you explain why you feel this way? So now you're  asking for, you know, how they feel about it, you know, on a scale of one to 10?  How important is this? Because I don't know, you might not know, I'm bringing  up something. And is this a big thing? Is this a little thing? And if it's a big thing,  why is it a big thing for you? Can you explain maybe why this is so important to  you. And then finally, here's what I now understand from your point of view. So  the goal then say, if Mitch is the one bringing things up, or bringing up an issue  to you, your goal is, is is to finally get to the point where you can say, okay,  Mitch, this is what I think your issue is, and you say it, and if he goes, That's not  quite yet, well, then you're not done. Listening, you have to keep listening long  enough to where you can say, I think this is how you feel, I think I understand.  And you think I got it? And if he says, Yeah, I think you do. All right. Then you go to number five. Okay, so what do you need from me? What do you want? And  then he can say, whatever that is, okay? Now, the reason that you can have the  patience to do all that. And, you know, let's say, you know, the person bringing  up the problem, says all kinds of things that are unfair, and not true. And 

examples are bad. And you know, he misses he's not remembering things that  wasn't accurate at all. And the whole time you're thinking this is, this is not true,  this is not true. You don't want to present that because then it shuts him down,  

you want to try to understand them, regardless of what he thinks, whether it's  insane or not insane. And you can do that, knowing that eventually it will be your turn. Okay, so if he says something that's blatantly untrue, you don't have to tell  him now. You can just remember it. Because later, we switch roles and all he  has to listen to you. So that's step three. Proverbs 18:17, the first present his  case seems right until another comes forward and questions. So you, you're  going on the assumption that he's right, he has the right to feel how he feels.  And I just want to understand, but now it's time to turn the tables around. So  now we switch roles. The one who brought up the problem person A must now  try to understand the other's point of view. And other one who has been asking  the questions, person B says something like this, can I tell you my side of this  problem? So then you state your problem, from your point of view? You know,  maybe I'm late, because I feel like I'm the one responsible to get everyone  ready. Or I may not say I appreciate with working with words, but I try to show  you how I deal with actions or whatever it might be. So now the other person A  asked the same questions as Person B did before. So what is the problem?  From your point of view? Could you tell me more about it? Do you mean this?  And do you mean that? Why is this a problem to you? How does it make you  feel on a scale of one to 10? How important is this? Can you explain why you  feel this way? Here's now what I understand is your point of view in this whole  thing, and what do you want from me? So in a sense, you take turns doing the  same thing. What's hard about this is to stick with to actually know your role and  stick with that role and not get into jumping from defending to listening to  defending back and forth, that's the typical pattern that we fall into. So okay, so  now once you've done that, step four is now both of you have truly listened to  each other and each one feels understood. You can try to figure out a  compromise solution that will meet both your needs. This is the press. Ok. So  let's try that. So let's go back to the beginning here. Let's bring up here and by  the way, we need to thank them for being with us when you do these things that  no one else is listening to Several one is communicated. I have a problem with  you. I think that you tend to be more late than I am. And they're their voice  places. So like for church and stuff. So that was my, can you explain to me a  little bit more about this? So I would say to explain it, I can think of a bunch of  times where we're, you know, you know how late we are, like, we'll be like five  minutes late to church, and then I'll go upstairs to see like, you just unzip the the makeup bag and you pull it out stuff, and you're doing your makeup. And I'm  like, we have to be like, we're supposed to be there five minutes. And so for me,  I would, I would say that, you know, for you, being on time was more of an  option. Whereas in my mind, I praise it more like it's a requirement, like people 

are expecting something. And why is this a problem for you? I can see it. She  really wants to understand. That's right. You have to, like I would say it would be  a problem. Because in my mind, it's something what I value just being on time  so that other people, it just it's more of a habit that, you know, it's important to  stay on, you know, where people have an expectation of you. And if you don't  deliver on that expectation, I feel this stress going with it. But it for you, it's a little bit more easier to kind of bend the time and show up a little bit later in your  although be more understanding. Whereas for me, it's like, we have to be there  kind of thing. So how does my part in this make you feel? Can you explain why  you feel this way? I feel sorry, maybe how I would feel based off of you being  late. I would say your apartment is just like, like when I when I show up because it's a 15 minute drive to your house. And so by then I've been already, like  dressed for church chairs done already answer there for 20 minutes earlier than  I come up. And I know you look closer, you know, you can set your alarm the  same time. And then when I see that you're not ready to just kind of like that's  your partner. It is like, that's what frustrates me in churches, just one example.  But it just like, that's what frustrates me is just seeing like, in my mind, I have the same expectations of you that I have of my self. It's like, if I'm ready, you should  be ready. I'm dressed you should be. So let me let me let me let me take Abby's  role a little bit. Because the goal here is, you know, as I'm listening to the talk,  I'm trying to understand. So I want to know, when, what what why do you? Why  is being on time important to you? What do you what do you think you've got  that you were born that way? Or did you? Were you raised in a family that was  on time? Or? Why do you think this is important to you? Being on time for me,  it's just more of it's more of my commitment to other people when I'm my bigger  and this is just more of I feel like I didn't get it from somebody, I feel like I just in  my nature to like, I want to be a very stable person. So like, if I tell my friend  Yeah, I'll be there at eight. You know, where do you think that came from? Or  why do you think I mean, a lot of people aren't that way. So why are you there?  Were you always that way? Not when I was a kid I didn't really care about. So  when did you start caring what other people thought of you? Or is someone  that? I don't know if other people think of me, it's I have been on the flip side of  that. Okay, even something as simple as when I worked at a car dealership, and I was a car salesman, and someone would say, I have an appointment at this  time with this. So I would schedule appointments all the time. So like, okay, so  you're gonna be here at 3:30 in the afternoon. So then I'm planning and I see  someone walking in the car lot. And it's just like, I could go up to him and I could  sell a car to that person. But I'm sitting in my chair waiting for this person to  show up. And then 35 minutes later, I get a call. Hey, by the way, I forgot to let  you know, I'm not showing up for Hey, I'm running 20 minutes late and so like,  and so then I like it seems because then it's like you have this expectation.  They'll be here at this time to deliver and burned. I've gotten burned on it 

enough to where I feel that if we're going to an event that other people are  thinking we're going to be at a certain time. My fear is that they're going to get  burned the same way I got burned. Do you think that is the biggest part of life? I  mean, you work maybe that way before? I would say that's when it really is  started like that was when I really liked him before then I didn't think much of it, I  didn't think you know, because it was more of like, oh, they'll understand they'll  get it. And a lot of people when I worked there told me only I'm sure you're  understanding, you know, you're gonna be and this was like, I think that was,  that's probably the biggest part of it is that my fear that I'm going to hurt  someone's feelings, that that person is gonna get a false assumption of who I  am as a person, or like I'm not prioritizing it to them. So it can see that, I mean,  that's kind of the goal is to find out. No, let's say it was sometimes, like, my wife  would say the same thing. She likes things in order. And I'm messy. So she  might complain about that. And, but if I was listening to her, so she'll complain  that I'm messy. And, you know, but she'll do it in a way that I could, as a lawyer  pull it apart? Well, you know, I had three sermons to do, and I had this and this  and that, and I have, you know, I had this mountain of stuff to do. And so,  excuse me for having a few things around the house. And I didn't close the  cupboard, but I did put food on the table. Defense, but then I don't learn a thing  about her. See, every time someone has an issue, it's really an opportunity to  learn something about them. I've been married a long time, but you know, when  I first did this with her, Okay, you that really upsets you when I leave things  around, and some things are not in their place? Well, why is that? They  shouldn't be in their place. She doesn't know why. Right? It's just who you are.  Okay. So I have to keep asking questions that go well, well, how important is  this? Like a scale of one to 10? How angry do you get 10? Yeah, I'm a nine.  Okay. Okay. This is a real Why do you think it's a nine? I mean, it's like, it's just  stuff, it's, you know, the important thing is, you know, from my point of view, is  just getting things done, or what have you. So why is this? You know, so it takes  a long time to keep just, it doesn't matter what questions you're actually asking,  it doesn't matter whether these or whatever. It's just, I'm trying to understand  you. Right. Now, that's such a good point. Because I think asking the questions  that were here, like, they were good at first start. But I wasn't like learning  anything new. And I felt really defensive. Like, once you just talked about, like, I  don't even feel that offensive anymore. Going into my situation. Now. I don't  actually feel like I shouldn't know. That's when you start. Because what was  actually going through my mind was, know when I got with me when we got to  the car dealership after. So it makes sense because that was when you started  taking that shift. And it made me feel less defensive, because I started to  understand something your way, right? Now I'm like, okay, and I have a problem, right? Because they're saying something that doesn't make sense. Because if, if it did make sense, you would correct it, you will not do this. You have your own 

reasons why you do what you do. And I have all the justification of the world for  leaving messes and so on. And, you know, but I have to put that away, and  leave it there. And I have to genuinely just want to understand where you're  coming from so far, when she would share it would be like, well, you know,  ultimately, I learned that that's her family, her family was had a high value on  everything in its place, and a low value on accomplishing things. Like my dad  started 20 different businesses. So accomplishment, and starting doing  something and making something happen. And what where the tools went  afterwards is not the important thing. But for her, her father was very, I mean, the first time I met him, you know, we were engaged and I met him. The second in  that was a Sunday that we got on Monday morning, he had me dig up their  septic field. So you know, we're gonna get started this relationship, right, you  know, as I'm digging the whole thing, throwing it in the manure spreader and  they lived on a farm, you know, I spend the whole day doing that. And he, you  know, had these rubber boots and what have you. And when I was done, I  washed up the rubber boots and I put them at the back door. When he walked  by, he didn't say hey, thanks for you know, doing this all day. He just said we  don't put our boots there. The important thing was just working hard all day. But  for him. The job is putting the boots away and things are in order. Okay, so for  her being valued as a daughter was about things in order. So when I, you know,  don't, you know, and I dismiss all that because of my own reasons. That's the  message she's giving. She's not feeling valued and so on. Well, it's helpful not  for me to understand the backstory in order to know. Okay, but that's just one  side of the story. So Now step two, Abby, now it's your turn, to say, you know,  the problem from your point of view? And then let's just see what he can. Or can I tell you my side of this? I would love. So, I think that sometimes I can be a little  late. But what I was seeing was just the past couple of times, you've been  running lane, I've genuinely felt that it was. Just recently, when we were  supposed to hang off my parents at 8:45. And like, he's like, sitting there like  talking with all the trimmings, like not eating his food. And I'm like, we literally  until either three minutes. And he's like, get out. I mean, we go into the room.  He's like, Why do you care, obviously, because we told them 8:45. And there's  no reason that you couldn't have had your suit finished by 8:30. And then you're  grabbing clothes forever. Like, I'm like getting so mad. I'm like, What the heck?  Do you have known this for at least 45 minutes, and you didn't do and he was  sitting on his bed, watching YouTube videos. Reason why you should not have  and. And then we also had that just a little bit ago to when we were going to take photos. He knew all day that we were doing photos at a certain time. And he's  not ready again. He's sitting there in pajamas, and like not ready. And I'm like,  freaking out. I'm like, we got leather things to be worried about, we got this. And  then you're mad at me for wanting to be on time. I'm just saying. I think that  there's been quite a few times where I felt really frustrated. And I know my 

reasoning is my dad has always made a huge priority. And he feels that that's  the way yeah, we show that we value someone else's time. And so for me, I feel  unvalued when you don't get things ready, especially when really knew about  them ahead of time. I felt like it was different one for extreme, because like, I feel like nobody is like actually expecting me to be there. Like if I miss the first time I  don't feel upset. But if I feel like someone's expecting me, I don't want to let that  person down in life by being late. And my last one, I'm sorry. That situation that  we just had with a friend. I felt that the reason we were late was because like  you wanted to go to the gym, and then I had to be bringing into the gym and all  these things anyway, and I get in this giant fight with her. Because, you know, I  had to be doing something for you. So I guess that's why when you said that I  felt like it was really unfair. Because I was like, Whoa, I feel like I've been burned a lot by you being late. I was thinking like, I just don't see how that is. You see,  that's what happens. Yeah. And then it just goes on the same trail that you've  done many, many times. Because every single every single point you said, like,  oh, that's sad to know that you don't. So I would say could you explain a bit  more of this problem? I went up to wish she did it pretty much. Because she  knew all these all these things in but again, you have, you know, so when all she said because she said alarm said down somebody. Alright, so now if you're  listening, you're listening for that thing that was like, Well, that was interesting. I  want to know more about that. So in all that, she said, What did you catch? That  was sort of interesting, that you'd want to know more about? Because I had  something I would want to know you mentioned cuz you were talking about all  this stuff. And then you mentioned your major justification was because your dad had the importance of going on time. And I think that stood out to me because I  want to know, is there another reason beyond your dad that you feel this way?  Or is it? What do you feel like you wanted to pick it up from your dad? I think  that that was one of the things my parents like legitimately thought about the  most was her being right in him being on time. And so that was a constant thing  that was constantly going on and it was like so I feel like again the importance of being on time and was like, really prioritized. And then I think for me, too, I felt  the same way. Like, if somebody like, does, it shows up late, it does tell me like,  okay, like, my time wasn't that valuable to them. And even outside of just having  that friend like her saying, like, use less time to value my time because you were late. So I know that is how people feel about being late. But I don't think the  biggest thing is just seeing that, from my parents like being like, Okay, this is a  big deal. So it's more of just, you saw the issue it was with your parents, and  now you're trying to you're trying to put up the future fires by addressing it now.  So you're trying, you're trying to solve what they what they were struggling with? Is your power relationship? Yeah, I mean, definitely, I don't want that to be an  issue for us is that we're constantly having time issues. And how so how, like, is  this a 10? Issue? Or is this a five or two? I mean, how strongly do you feel 

alone? I think it's, it's not quite a median. But it's definitely not like, it's not a hot  button. Like, I've actually never really been that upset about it. Like, there's just  been various. So I would say like, a six maybe like, I definitely feel like it needs  to be addressed. Like it's, but it's not like really toiling on my mind and really  

mad at you about this all the time. I would say. And I was gonna use it as part of  my defense point where I get, but I won't use it for that, because I want to turn,  but I would say it's definitely circumstantial, like it depends on what it is.  Because you guys are getting into the compromised mode. And you haven't,  you're not done with this listening thing yet. Okay, because you have you have  to be able to say to Abby, how she's feeling. And she has to say she has to get  the sense that you, I think you understand where I'm coming from? Is that that  step we have to make? Okay, so now what do we want to do? Yeah. Well, you  think you understand, you feel like he understands you. And you haven't heard  him make a statement back about? Right. So I would, I would say that, and that  was what I was trying to do. And I was bringing up the idea of you are trying to,  you're trying to make it so what the issue of your parents are struggling with isn't an issue that we have, as well as the idea that you don't want to disappoint other people in the same way that I don't want to disappoint people. That's my take on your passion behind that one. Do you do you feel like you understand Abby's  saying, related to this? I do, because a lot of the things you were saying in terms of why you don't want to be late was resonating with me. And I feel like I can I  can if I can do that, then I can understand your point. You know, if I can find the  logical explanation behind your reasoning, which I did, I can just tend to find a  logical explanation. When you just decide not to understand me then. Right?  What if it wasn't logical motions here? I wouldn't understand being being 100%  True. Well, it would be tough for me to because I'm a very large, like, I need to  have a reason to understand. And so if you told me that I don't. Or if you told me I don't like being late because I don't. I don't like to feel like it was like that's  something that's like. To me, that is when it's interesting, because I don't know  what that means. Oh, yeah. I don't understand at all what you're talking about.  This is an opportunity to learn something that you don't understand at all right?  Open Door to because ultimately, you want to all through out your marriage life,  you want to keep learning new stuff about each other, because you are different  people. And if she was just logical, you'd get it in five minutes. But she's, let's  see, she's not really she's different from you in areas that you will take a lifetime  to figure. That's fun. It's like, I don't know how that works. How does that work?  How do you do that? How does the emotion thing? Emotion? How do you live by that way? Because for me, it's hard to I can't even I don't even know how to  think about that way. So you're like a new discovery that I don't know anything  about. So that's kind of how you have to have it inside of you. That I want to  understand you more than I want to solve this problem. Let me put the lawyer as well put the explore, explore, I want to understand what emotion is because I'm 

not. I'm not. I'm not. And it will help me if I can get a better picture of this,  because then I'll get it. And that'll be that'll be a challenge for me, because I'm a  very, yeah, I'm not I'm not structured that way. But that's where it's when you do  have your emotional sides, and I don't think very emotionally volatile. Right? I  think more structure. That's right. You want to solve the emotion, I want to  anger? Okay, let's wire this. Yeah, what can we dice it, slice it, and 10 minutes  later, you're not angry anymore, because we've solved Yeah. Whereas the other way to go is, this is opportunity for me to understand how she thinks, what's  important to her, what, what how she has lived and things she's overcome, or  how she deals with life. And I will learn something about her background, I feel  like it's like choosing to appreciation, appreciate the person more by like trying to understand them, because like, we can still solve this issue in a little bit, but  what you might learn or understand what you're saying, I think will make a big  difference in trying to resolve a disagreement. But you can see where you're not  always going to have time to do all this. Right? Sometimes you just have a  probably, we have time just to solve it, because we're gonna go somewhere or  whatever running late, or you're running late. So that's what I'm saying once in a while I was like, you know, honey, I think we should do this, I think we should, or  we, let's take some time. Let's schedule it, you know, two days from now we're  gonna go to the park. And we're just gonna, we're gonna take some time to get  some more understanding rather than just quickly solve this problem. Because I  think couples tend to just, they're on a hurry. They're always just quickly solving  things. But then it keeps coming back over and over and over and over again,  and you keep fighting about the same things just being disappointed about the  same things. And it's like if we just once in a while step back. And you know,  once you understand a person is way easier to deal with the things that even  like, if I understand you, I understand what you're dealing with. Okay, I'm not  offended by. Whereas before, I was, like, we take it personal. That's exactly  right. And not see that, you know, they have their reasons for feeling that way.  Okay, emotional. So the one question, we didn't ask each other. You know,  what? What do you what do you want from me? So why don't we try that one?  Do you want me to ask? What do you need from me? I guess, I feel like what I  would want from you, because one of the bigger things that frustrates me isn't  the fact that we're necessarily running late. It's the time when I'm stressing out  about it. And I'm telling you, like, we have to be on time, let's go. You still find  even after I voiced my discomfort about being late, you still find the time to sit  down and do your makeup. And I know sometimes we'll try and do it in the car.  But then like, you'll go upstairs and they'll start picking out puts in and you slowly go curlier? Or do you still find the time to do the things that I knew as something  is not as important? Because then it's like, we have to go and then you're like,  oh, no, and I'm sure that you're still putting on your eyeliner and stuff. And I  know. For me, it's like no love to draw. And I feel like you're prioritizing what you 

want over what I want. And it's not like, I need to get my way. But in terms of  something that I barely left, like doing your makeup or curling your hair or  whatever it might be, like, I feel like it would make you would mean more to me  to see you try and prioritize when I say like, Let's go like you kind of okay, I'll do  the makeup in the car. Or, you know, so that's kind of what I want. Yeah. So how would you say what would you want? I guess for me, like I would just need like,  yeah, like if I'm feeling like, Okay, we need to go because we made a  commitment to someone or you know, there's a reason we have to do that like  like when we recently have that close and like you're getting like pretty mad like,  I can't find the pants. Like you need to have like what are you doing? I'm like,  well if you just done this 45 minutes ago so I think just like if you know we have  a deadline especially if you're in the environment of like your house where you  feel like more relaxed and all your stuff is there like still be like ahead of the  game. Like if you want to watch a YouTube videos like first layout the clothes  that you need to take along, you know, like, just really prioritize that if you know  that we have something even if it's as silly as engagement photos like prioritizing that So if I, you know, just listening to both of you, it seems like you both can be  late. So, and you both have a high value on not disappointing people. And it  sounds like you shared the same values. And you said the same complaint  about each other. Yeah. So why do you think that is? Why do you think? The  same issue? How are we doing? How can this, you know, this go? Why do you  think that is? I think that's where you were trying to bring up. It's situational. Like, I think it's like, the environment we're in because, like, I feel like yeah, like find  that my house, like, I'm really tempted to keep like, Oh, there's another thing,  there's nothing I can do. And find out your house. If I'm at your house, I'm  already ready. And that's the same thing you said, like, it's like, whoever seems  to be the one that's being the one picked up or the one who's like, in their  environment, they're more likely to be the one that's like, late, I think it's also it  has to boil down to that logic versus emotion, like we were talking about earlier,  where it's like, to me, you know, church, like actually bring up church, I'm just  gonna stick with it. But like, church is more like what you said about, I don't feel  like I mattered if you're late for church. But the very reason why you thought it  didn't matter was one of the reasons why it mattered most to me, because  church is set in such a structured way where it's like, if we don't show up, now,  we're gonna miss the first time, or we're gonna be late to worship and worship  something important to me, so I want to make sure. So that's where I break it  down into numbers and logic, and I'm like, Okay, well, if we do this, or we're  gonna do this, but something like going to your house, we didn't have anything  planned with your parents. We didn't have it was strictly, you know, there was  no, there was no, it was just we're gonna go to your house tonight. And so for  you, like it was, it was kind of weird for me to see that emotion of I want to be  there. Because I told my parents we would be there. To me, there wasn't like a 

reason why we needed to be there at 8:45, click on the button, where's it with  church? Church starts and that, you know, you have to be there at a certain  time. But like, for me, when it's even more emotional, where it's like, I want to be there just because I told my parents I was going to be there. I don't feel like that, that reason, that night was a logical enough explanation for me to really, you  know, eat my food super fast. And it's totally fine for 10,15 minutes late.  Whereas for something like church or something more structured, but either at  this time, I feel so I feel like not only is it circumstances based off of you're  coming to my house, or I'm going to yours, it's also is it a logical reason? Or is it  an emotional one, because the times where it's logical, like church starts at this  time doesn't really resonate as well with you, but the emotional ones don't really  resonate as well as me. So it's, it's so so you can see that? I mean, there's  better understanding now. But it's not totally there, right? Because there's other  topics, though, like, okay, you don't understand why the makeup thing is  important to her. Or the value that she, you know, why is this an issue for her?  Why is this important to her? Do you understand that? Do you understand the  whole relationship with her parents? Obviously, that's something that's important to her for whatever reason, and it's not to you. So you don't understand totally  how she's feeling about that? Or why that drives her? Or how much it drives  her? What if it was like a 10? Was it but you don't understand it? Right?  Because it's like, well, what's the point? And, and again, for you, church, yeah,  people come late. Whenever you miss the first songs, you know, whatever it is,  like, Yeah, I know, it starts logically it starts. But you don't have to be there a lot  of the rounds. But then it's like, oh, I mean, they're heard thing I heard you say  is, I love music. And you said that before on the shared interests and guitar is a  big thing. You're one of your biggest interests. And I don't think you listen to  guitar for him, did you write a big thing for him? To then so maybe worship, you  know, like, he doesn't want to miss one single song or whatever. So it's just this,  you know, the one thing you can kinda get a little sense of it. But then it just  opens the door to other little things that you need to kind of do the same thing  on like, okay, let's talk about church. Let's just talk about we might not be on the  same exact page in terms of church, and how we think about church or what  arts we appreciate about church. Maybe one likes to sermon or would like to, or, you know, one one may hate singing. Let's say someone hates singing and the  other one loves it. And so now you have the conflict that no one in our owns  even talking about, like, Well, why don't you like singing? Well, I mean, I'm not a  good singer. I just stand there. You know what Whatever people that are, so I  have people in our church who come, they come 16 minutes late, because they  just they don't like stand in there. They don't, whatever. Okay? You know, if I  understand that, then I'm not offended as a pastor when they come 15 minutes  late. This other people love to sing, and they leave at the service. So you can  see that, you know, we made a little progress. But there's other things to talk 

about. And, again, the goal is to try to see in that will be hard for you, Mitch, the  number one goal is not solving the problem. The number one goal is  understanding each other better. And the sense that I think you do understand  me, because if you think you understand me, that I don't necessarily think you  do. And if I don't think you do, it doesn't matter. Isn't that the other party? You  don't? Yeah, I don't think right, because like, I'm not totally convinced. I'm like, I  like love you. Like I sing on the praise team, too. And if I'm on the praise team,  like, I'm not late, because like, I've committed to like a person. So I feel like,  that's where it's like, we both do value the meat pricing escolares like you're  making it. Right. Right, right. I honestly think on the praise team, I'm like, the  worst excuse for me to right. So he's applying a reason to you that you're not  buying. Right. Right? So and that's good, because then it's like, okay, he has a  pre supposition about why you're thinking and doing something you're doing. So there's a good thing to explore. Right? So why is it that you don't care about  being late? If you do, like, it's more like, my like stress about, like, if I don't have  my makeups on or something that would maybe be more the issue than like, my like, Oh, it doesn't matter so much if we miss the first. The one. So, so to me,  that's why that whole makeup thing I thought was interesting is what about that?  Like, I don't think you understand how she feels about that. Yeah, I might. Yeah.  And if you fully understood it, you'd get the bigger picture. And so she's, you  know, she doesn't want to be late for church, but she really doesn't want to  come to church half prepared, you know, or whatever, because of whatever  reasons, and you need to understand those reasons, because it's not one or the other. See, and that's what we tend to do, right? We tend to go well, if you don't  do that, then you must not like music. Whereas there's other factors that enter it. And it's not a choice between one and the other is a choice between dropping  the ball here or dropping the ball there. And I'm making the choice to drop the  ball there as opposed to this. So I just think that is it's either you're not going to  do that with everything. But it's really good to do this once in a while to really try  to understand each other. Alright, so we'll continue with our next session next  time.