Henry - Today we're gonna talk about the challenges to intimacy and pleasure in marriage. So we've talked about the theology, we've talked about the biblical instances, we've talked about  fallen sexuality. Now we're gonna talk about the challenges to a happy marriage of sexual  intimacy and pleasure. So to begin that, let's just dive right in.  

Pam - All right, we'll talk about the challenges, more difficult to talk about than your history  with the pleasure of eating food or running an organization.  

Henry - I'd much rather talk all about the challenges of CLI in the early days with with six  students. And then it was this and there was an ally, to get me talking about it all day. But you  know, talking about the challenges of our 38 year old Mira done, you know, sexuality, we  believe it. Yeah, I can talk about eating good food, and I'm a cook now. And  

Pam - yeah, well, Social Sciences, therapists and sex therapists take this out of the Christian  worldview.  

Henry - Yeah, interesting, too. That whole area has gone into the kind of sex therapy  counseling thing and we ministers have been sidelined from this discussion. In largely self  inflicted wise, we don't want to talk about it. So then, this social sciences take the whole thing  over. And and we don't talk about stuff they will do in the case of a marriage retreat, where  you won't really address those things that bring healing.  

Pam - All right. Well, they're ministers, marriage ministers, married clergy, married sex  ministers, life coach ministers, matchmaker, ministers, wedding officiant ministers, all keep  the challenges within the Christian worldview,  

Henry - right? So and that's really what, especially as Alliance, in all our training, and  everything is, we say, Jesus Christ is Lord. And this is an area that's under the Lordship of  Jesus Christ, and He has saved us. And this is a great time to be alive. And so we're going to  help people deal with these challenges. So we talked about our good theology in Jesus Christ or the Bible. Now it's time to, you know, really mobilize an army to get out there and help  people figure these things out.  

Pam - Right. So these are some of the challenges. One sexual expectations differ,  

Henry - okay, that means that in the marriage, people would have been raised in different  ways and what they expect could vastly change  

Pam - could be very different from each other.  

Henry - Sometimes we have different cultures marry, right, thank you each other expectations, different eggs and eggs.  

Pam - And then Okay, so two is sexual urges, differ.  

Henry - libido can be very different. Two people can be married, and we've seen this in  ministry. We've seen the wife has a high libido of a husband very low, and we've seen the  other way around. And those issues have to be addressed. Yes. 

Pam - Yeah. They have to work together. Find a mutually agreeable, beautiful plan. Yes.  Sexual Abuse injury. Yep. That's a challenge.  

Henry - later in this presentation,  

Pam - yeah, porn injury, and we want to stop opening the wounds on that one. Five previous  sexual relationships  

Henry - in our world today, especially for new Christians. promiscuous lifestyle before they  found Jesus Christ, right. may have a past,  

Pam - right? Six physical injury,  

Henry - right? And how is that connected to someone's sexuality? All of those things,  Pam - seven mental health issues and eight stage of life issues.  

Henry - So while we dig right into this topic, I'm very fun to talk through some of these things.  Pam - Yes. Okay, sexual intimacy connected to  

Henry - this remind us of our brand. Right?  

Pam - So here we are Genesis 2:24. For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother  and be united to his wife and they will become one flesh.  

Henry - In Song of Songs or Song of Solomon  

Pam - 1:16. How handsome you are my lover. Oh, how charming and our bed is verdant.  Which means green with grass or other rich.  

Henry - Oh, really? So that's the north star. So you're married, you want to go live relationship 

Pam - sexual urges differ but sex is expected in marriage biological, sexual practice history,  confidence, knowledge and other factors affect sexual urges  

Henry - and these would connect to our expectations  

Pam - right so I Corinthians 7:9 but if they cannot control themselves they should marry For it  is better to marry than to burn with passion. And then Song of Solomon 5:8 oh daughters of  Jerusalem, I charge you if you find my lover, what will you tell him? Tell him I am faint with  love.  

Henry - So that's really what we does we put that expectations and urges kind of together  because there were similar types of concepts because they affect each other so much. But in  some ways. This is an area where there's a lot of communication. You know, it means to have an old communicate, yes, there's an old couple, right in what you know, what is our what is  the expectation right? Because to leave an unfulfilled expectation just festering is very  difficult. We have seen that in counseling, the word ministry, track and ministry, we've seen 

where people, they they thought going into the marriage that they were going to enjoy a  verdant sexual experience. And they married someone who, you know, once a month are  short, you know, just words just for reproduction. And that's it. And that creates such an  offense to the other person, it almost becomes a poisonous offense. So very, very important.  

Pam - Okay, sexual injury history, sexual abuse. II Samuel 13  

Henry - Jonadab with Amnon picks up for Amnon is now getting his way  

Pam - acting on his urges. Well, he thinks he's in love with this sister. Don't my brother she  said to him, don't force me such a thing would not be done in Israel. Don't do this wicked  thing. What about me? Where can I get rid of my disgrace? And what about you? You would  be the be one of the wicked fools in Israel. Please speak to the king. He will not keep me from being married to you. But he refused to listen to her and since he was stronger than she, he  raped her. Then Amnon hated her with intense hatred. In fact, he hated her more than he had  loved her eminence, adore get up and get out. Wow.  

Henry - And then she goes back to her  

Pam - to her brother, and her brother Absalom said to her has that Amnon your brother been  with you? Be quiet. No, my sister he is your brother. Don't take that thing to heart. And Tamar  lived in her brother Absalom's house and desolate moment. When King David heard this. He  was furious. Absalom never said a word to Amnon, either good or bad. He hated Amnon  

because he had disgraced his sister, Tamar. Now this story  

Henry - works itself out over several chapters. were Absalom kills on Amnon. And it also in  many ways, the sexual abuse took away the kingship to Amnon, who was  

Pam - right, he was the oldest  

Henry - he did he also created the terrible trajectory for Absalom  

Pam - right, because now he's killed his brother, there's, that's  

Henry - it tore apart and tore apart David's family. You know, so sexual abuse. Rape is just a  terrible thing. And I know that many, many of you maybe you've experienced something like  this, or, and how do you get beyond these things? And that's really, it the gospel of Jesus  Christ strong enough to not only save your soul, but save your body. And what we are here to  report is yes. And as ministers, we have that message. And yes, and we have seen the  healings and we again, we read the stories coming in and the healings come in, that come in  like rain or God is doing to change in the heal is pretty amazing. So let's talk about things  we've observed that God uses to bring healing sexual healing to those who have suffered  from abuse.  

Pam - Okay. One knowing that God will be with you to comfort To heal and to help you cope,  Psalms 34:19, a righteous man may have many troubles but the Lord delivers him from them  all. 

Henry - So we wrote this in the sense of knowing you. So this is like a tool you can use. So  the Minister, when you're praying was somebody who's abused say, you know, just  communicate the belief. We know that God of the Bible is with you. We know Jesus Christ is  with you. It's like a chaplain, chaplains bring, in a sense, the presence of God, there's a  confidence that God is the healer, by his stripes were healed. We are not lost. We don't need,  you know, we don't need 20 years of therapy. Now, again, I'm not criticizing therapy. I'm just  saying, God can heal and will heal and does heal, and he will heal you. And that is our  attitude. I remember a story in our in our first church, where there was a woman who was  sexually abused by her father, and by an uncle. And it was not a prayer in she struggled, she  was now married woman. She had flashbacks and triggers and all that. And I remember the,  she did a very wise thing by opening up her life to ministry, and you know. And so then, you  know, we were, we were ministering everything in, in at first it didn't happen in an instant. And  then one time, and I remember that a little Chapel Church, that would mean that first time in  the service and women were praying. And so they invited me the pastor to come in, I  remember praying, and all of a sudden, I felt this urge to put my hand up and pull. And I put  my hand up and I pulled, and I felt the Holy Spirit saying to do this. So I did that. And, and I  felt that tingle, and she reported, wow, I don't know what happened. But that was a healing  prayer. I don't know. And she lived her life from that time on healed of bitterness healed of so  many things. Now, that was like a two year per journey and a lot of discussion. But I believe  that in that moment, God healed her. Now, does it always happen? We know. I just know that  in she was, by the way, seen a lot of counseling and all that stuff that she says that moment  something happened, where God healed her on that hurt that abuse. But we can also talk  about one story after the other, you know, that gal in the little cafe Mary hospital that hearing  the sexual assault, she was in a family where they were forced out and all of them are  sexually abused. And she was thinking to end her own life. And I went to visit her after an  attempted suicide. And in and we prayed. And God took took away the voices that were trying to get her to commit suicide over this abuse. And I do remember two years later, we were now now at this church and Easter letter she sent and it had available LPS still no more voices.  God healed. So knowing that God is with us, just that's the starting point, that our spiritual  relationship with Jesus Christ and the power of the resurrection, and we ministers minister, his presence in that way.  

Pam - too, it could happen in an instant it could happen over a long period of time. Yes, we'll  be a cross to bear. Yes. II Corinthians 12:7-9 to keep me from becoming conceited. Because  of these depressingly great revelations, it was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of  

Satan to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me, but he said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness. Therefore, I  will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.  

Henry - We have many in ministry mini stories of this too. We were ministering to a woman  who had a young girl age got thrown into the pornography industry. Just you know That's kind  of immigrant and, you know, if it's the sex trafficking thing, right, you know, and, and at some  point, she got enough freedom to be able to make some serious money. And her husband to  be, was also somehow involved in this whole thing. And they wanted to get married while she  was still a participant in this abuse. And at first, the abuse was sort of abuse. But then the  abuse became enjoyable abuse and the pretty soon like, listen so bad. There's all this  pleasure associated with it, and then all this money associated with it. So they were gonna  get married. And they had an extremely hedonistic lifestyle, both of them in some of them are 

Pam - Christians. They're not. They're not Christians. We live next door  Henry - to a wedding chapel  

Pam - banquet center. And so our church, our church offered wedding to marry people  wedding. And all that wedding ministry and so I have a Christian opportunity to witness.  

Henry - And so I asked them while I was going over there, what they wanted for their wedding they shared what Jesus who Jesus Christ is, and everything. So I said, Would you like to both become a Christian you send your with me or with a ministry? Do you want what? Tell us. So I shared the whole ministry thing. And they became believers, like, Holy Spirit just change?  

Well, I didn't know anything about the lesbian porn. I didn't know anything about their other  porn encounters. I didn't know anything about this, and does this 21 year old, and her  husband, but three years later, or so or two years or something, are going to, they're going to  our church. And then she talks about how she said that she must be damned, or she must,  you know, what's wrong with me and it came down to is that that, that she was not being  healed of some of that abuse, the injuries and the injuries. So part of the injuries was for her.  When her husband's making love to her, she still had a lot of flashbacks, but pleasurable  flashbacks about lesbian porn and stuff that she had been doing. And then she was thinking,  How is it possible I can be married and still have these flashbacks. So we talked and she  said, So I maybe I just have to resign. I'm not a Christian. And we went down the trail in the  ministry of you know, in an instant, or a period of time, a cross the bear, but in all these things, sanctification journey, it's not your salvation, it's not at stake, and you and your husband are  there together with them. And I remember, you know, she wasn't really totally convinced. I  said, you know, you and your husband have gone through some pretty crazy I call them kinky  crazy things. Okay. And maybe your sanctification journey is to go through those and there  will be the time where these bad thoughts come in your mind that but you can know that in  time there the healing will occur and you may be able to minister to others who have these  types of things well, she really appreciate that that she basically could be an imperfect her  mind imperfect things will just be gone through all  

Pam - right, she wasn't asking but always remember we're in the  

Henry - know she was injured. And in the early years later, I got a Facebook indicator  connected and talked about how she's thriving in less than less those kinky crazy wild  thoughts are there and she loves her husband and they're not into any of that stuff and in their children now and three children. Yeah, you know, but again, there's you know, they're a issues forgiven some of the perpetrators instilling in she realized in it, even with her own experience.  I mean, the fact is that she liked the pleasure it gave her. Okay, so she had to, like, figure out  how to not want that pleasure in want a marital pleasure, that wasn't as hyped wasn't all of  these things. But it was a pleasure that was tearing her insides apart. That's why she needed  Christ anyway. Right. Right. Okay. So it's sort  

Pam - of like to see how God feels, brings right in the middle of their marriage.  

Henry - Right. There's a completeness there's a depth and yes, pleasure. Why is there a  pornography industry like there is because it is The hat itself in intense pleasure that feels that they're trying to say marriage pleasure focus is born the curse of our amazing pleasure, but  that just destroying lives. right leaning, and you can see Satan, you know, I can use more. But

in ministry, you know, and again, we're not, we're not trying to say some size fits all in every  situation is different.  

Pam - Everybody's journey is different. And yes, a woman had that. And  

Henry - you know, again, if you're in ministry a long time, you have a lot of stories, maybe it's  good, we share some of them with you, you know, the whole you know, there's, there was a  Saturday service and woman came with her girlfriend from, from about 40 miles away,  because she got this strange headache. I'm gonna die there make my peace with God, she  thought she had a brain tumor. Yeah, so she comes in, she's like, 23, or 24, maybe. And so  the whole sermon afterwards, she and her girlfriend meet with me and says, look, what can I  do to make myself right with God never knew that I shared the gospel with her. But it came  down to this is a gal who at the age of like, 12, was abused by her father, that her brother that  her uncle, then someone else, if at the time she was a teen, all she knew was how to give  pleasure to men. Then she continued, that was very quite pleasurable for but she couldn't  trust the man. So she became in a relationship with a woman, you know, now, there is a lot of  abuse that goes on there. But Jesus Christ changes her life. And where that goes, is now a  journey that she's on. And many of us and we see the stories, a lot of people go through a lot  of journeys, but it's Christ Jesus, the power of the Holy Spirit, that brings restoration. As a  minister, we have the confidence to know that God is the healer, the Savior, we're not, we  don't need to therapy them into things. Now, that does mean listening. That does mean  encouraging. That means is treating them as brother or sister in innocence, we do not ever  take that abuse for any abusing purpose whatsoever. You know, and I assume that's true. And you know that and but you Satan gets a foothold on these issues, you know, and we want to  keep ourselves, you know, in a very accountable place, of how I can see I can have a lot of  stories about this. But one common theme, Jesus saves Jesus, Jesus, Jesus changes lives.  Okay?  

Pam - Three, be open to a software plan for your healing this week last year is resilience even if things won't be perfect, you do not have to be desolate or bitter from past abuse. I think  that's some of the stuff we talked about Psalm 71:20, though you have made me see troubles  many and better you will restore my life again, from the depths of the earth, you will again  bring me up.  

Henry - That's a really powerful passage, though you have made me see troubles. In other  words, you know,  

Pam - you that has happened to me, I will  

Henry - restore my life again. And from the depths of the earth, He will again bring me up, you know, I'm talking about memory verses, you know, in ministry, if you're ministering to those  who have suffered for a lot of abuse, is dual Bible search and passages like that one and  even commit them to memory and write them on cards, and share, you know, sister brother,  here's the verse that means a lot Yeah, though I've seen trouble many is bitter. You restore  me extremely powerful.  

Pam - Four forgiveness stops bitter roots Colossians 3:13 there with each other and forgive  whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 

Henry - You know the Lord in prayer has been in there forgive me forgive our trust  Pam - our trespasses, those who trespass or us something  

Henry - we've been doing this for a long time. But no forgiveness is that that game changer in  abuse and in so many, because if we hold on to the bitterness, blame others and it changes  Everything about you know, life is short enough in the days that the Lord gives us but to hold  up. And that's something Christianity has a cutting edge of Social Sciences, our founder of  Christianity, died on a cross to forgive us our sins. That's huge. And that's the foundation of  salvation. The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. Then we Jesus on the cross, forgive,  forgive them for they know not what they do. It humbles us to know that we are not branded  as the always abused, the always downtrodden. You know, one of the things we learned in  ministry is that if when somebody first comes to the Lord, and then terrible things have  happened in their past, one of the things that we try to help them in ministry do is don't define  yourself by what's happened in the past, to get your identity through what's happening for  your future. And it's a game changer because the Holy Spirit moves during your new creation  in Christ.  

Pam - Christian marriage is to be a safe place, a process healing and sanctification. It is a  place of deep vulnerability, healing place, service and freedom. Song of Solomon 8:10, I am a wall and my breasts are like towers also, I have become in his eyes like one bringing content.  

Henry - Wow. So if you are in a marriage, and each of you struggle, know that in your  marriage, that passage in Song of Songs is interesting. The woman says my breasts are like  a tower, there's protection. Whatever your sexual journey is, my breasts are there to help you  through that you don't get into the devil's traps. And we can be together. And there's a playful  journey. You know, I've observed that a healthy marriage, you work out a lot of things. And in  that area, because sexuality is fallen. There's a way in which in that marriage bed, the  growing verdant grass grows. And if you keep growing grass, the weeds sort of don't show  up. And when there are weeds, they're not many of them because the grass is growing. So,  you know, as we minister were to be the ones to say, you know, the benefits of marriage are  healing, whatever your situation might be. Let's talk next about the porn injury. And again, to  stop opening the wounds.  

Pam - Right. I Corinthians 6:18, fleeing from sexual immorality, all other sins a man commits  are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.  

Henry - The fact is, we're a pretty porn injured world. And is the statistics are overwhelming.  There's a whole section on porn injury in this class. So we're not going to talk too much about  that. Just wait to get into that we're talking about what happens to dopamine and the Coolidge effect. And all of those things are all in that presentation. But to acknowledge it is an injury  that is very pervasive in the world right now, is to say it's something that challenges  marriages, but it's not something that we have to be defeated by. I think that's the message.  So I'm not gonna we're not gonna talk too much more about this. It will just you can check that out later on.  

Pam - past failures Philippians 3:13. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold  of it. But one thing I do, forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I  Thessalonians 2:1, you know, brothers, that our visit to you was not a failure. 

Henry - Okay. The thing I find so interesting about that, is that as in Jesus Christ, there's  always a future and like it, and in that sexual intimacy thing, it opens itself up to a  performance mentality. If it didn't go this way, you know, but to have this attitude like this  interesting. What how can we grow or what are we? Let's get a book. I remember so many  times we have this like library of all these books on sexual practice and marriage. Your Kevin  Leaman and  

Pam - all of that, there's a lot of good books and authors out there that are that Christians that will write so upside,  

Henry - ideas and all of those things that create like a marriage verdant life and to be reading  and dissipating. If you want that and go forward, they're there in plenty.  

Pam - Alright, then physical injury, Isaiah 40:29, he gives strength to the weary and increases  the power of the weak.  

Henry - We have ministered to people, you know, people with disabilities, or people with  injury? Or, you know, how is someone who could not have sexual intercourse? How could  they be fulfilled in a marriage bed the answer 1000 ways. It's just in their imagination, it does  not mean you can fulfill one another in a close intimate relationship without intercourse. It's  how your imagination you know, one thing about marriage, it will we we might talk about this  further, is that are there what's do's and don'ts in the marriage bed, you know, really whatever  you mutually protect, want to participate with, between each other, that doesn't harm each  other. That just the two of you exclusive relationship is a beautiful thing. And, and Christianity,  you can see it from the Song of Songs, there is just a whole variety of expressions of marital  intimacy. And if someone is injured or something that doesn't mean they just turn off their  sexual person. There, this might be that but not that this is not that the point being is in Christ, it's not the expectation of how to give to one another, and how to help each other be ministers to one another. Rather than you know, it's this this this or I'm not interested,  

Pam - right? Stop limiting beliefs. Yes.  

Henry - Yes, is the limiting beliefs. And that relates probably?  

Pam - Well, I Peter 5:7, Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.  

Henry - Very similar to the disabilities and all abilities type thinking is you the trouble too, with  mental illness is that if you're a failure in the bedroom, it just hurts your mental illness. But  somebody if you can get to this place where it's like, the marriage is a beautiful thing. And  mental health issues don't have to disqualify us.  

Pam - Right. But again, men, that's also a place where the Lord heals.  

Henry - Yes. And this is to where ministers can come in. Right? You know, because if you're in ministry to a couple that has mental health issues, it is usual, it's been our observation that  their sexual immorality is hurting. So there might be an opportunity to say, you know, is that  something that's a struggle? Maybe the one that's been struggling? And you know, it'd be yes, it probably is, well, maybe there could be some encouragement that helps them re imagine 

what an appropriate sexual relationship is like, given the mental health issues. And people are very open to it unless you ask. And then maybe you had a prayer. And then somehow the  Lord moves because if someone is feeling like they're failing their spouse, because of their  mental health issues, that even can increase their depression. So again, the elephant in the  room is going to be talked about in a dress rather than just let it fester. alone without talking  about it. Here's one.  

Pam - I Timothy 5:11, stage of life issues to talking about as for younger widows do not put  them on such a list for when they, when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to  Christ. They want to marry  

Henry - know we talked about this in a previous one with there's list of widows or some  contentment. You know, there is a stage of life issues to sexual intimacy. And we've  experienced being married 38 years, we've experienced that as well. That it's not the same  phases of life. Yeah, every you know,  

Pam - as you age, there's different different things to deal with.  

Henry - Our sexual intimacy is still vital and real and alive, but it is different than when we  were 28. Right. And that's in those are all part of the, you know. And as ministers, there's lots  of literature about stage of life things to become knowledgeable if you're a life coach and  minister in the area, sex ministry where you're helping people to process this, that'd be one to  really study and really learn. So those are all issues that are very important. So there are  challenges to  

Pam - solutions, there are solution the Lord and the  

Henry - Lord and His power is there. You know, I've often reflected upon, like therapists in  general in over the years, people have come with in the ministry to a lot of situations and a lot  of problems. But I've noticed that the healing power of Jesus Christ, if we start talking about  these things, bring whole and how wholeness and hardness of health to people. At all, it's  good. Until next time,



Modifié le: mercredi 26 octobre 2022, 07:23