Video Transcript: Relational Discerment

Welcome back to the Christian discernment class. And last time I was interested in worldview discernment. Today, we talk about relationship. So, how do we do  that? What are the process? Well, we all relate to a lot of people. And a lot of  this is first, second nature, you know, we're, you're in a process, you  automatically are doing the things, we're talking about records. So sometimes  when discernment comes you really want to know, the process of maybe you  want to marry somebody, maybe you would like to you maybe there's a conflict,  you want to kind of say, you know, what's going on here, I feel like there's  something there's just disquieted within me about a relationship. So then there's  a process that you can say, I can go to this process, and try to figure out some  things to come to some conclusions through prayer, and the guidance of the  Holy Spirit. So first of all, we identified the relationship issue. Is this a problem?  Is this a conflict? Is this sometimes husband and wife giving each other the  silent treatment, because it's something or as a conflict at your workplace or  maybe a misunderstanding, or maybe it's a new friendship that you want to  make, right, or child connection, where the decision about elderly parents, I  mean, there's so many issues, a lot of times I find that one of the triggers to  know when there is a relational issue, I haven't find this, like, you grind up on  something, and you can't go to sleep, or you wake up at three in the morning.  And all of a sudden, you're thinking about something. Or you're anxious,  depressed, you're angry. I mean, a lot of times, just check your emotions, and  you will see that there's some thing going on, right? So we're gonna talk about  now is a process. And I would even suggest, to, like you get a little whiteboard  out or piece of paper, and take these points, and write them out again, and then  take the issue and see if you can answer some of the questions, and maybe try  it out. Try it out with a relationship. So let's look at so we talked about identify the issue, at least the best ask the Holy Spirit to help you. Then identify the people  involved. Is it just between me and my wife, or there's some other factor other  people that they need to first think about, but they're often surprised from that,  how if you don't ask that question, you might miss the real issue or the room.  There may be there's an instigator like Jonadab in the Bible that's involved in it.  It's not clear at first. But if you really think about it, when there might be  somebody else involved. Identify your own motivation. Why do you think that's  important? I think this is one of yours. too, I put that down. Because sometimes  when you're not clear about your own motivation, it will shift the whole  discernment process. Like, like you might be, here's an example is like, let's say  I want to go golfing. And then I have an issue with my wife. You know, I don't  know why we're sort of struggling about something. Right? It's also really is it  your I really want to go golfing. And you know what I find that Pam, I'll say, I  think I want to go golfing. She said, Well, you know what I first let's go to the  store at this time. But if I don't identify that, there's like a little bit of a thing.  Unaware. That's a factor in the discussion. But I didn't identify it or, you know, I 

think it's easy in a relationship conflict, to identify their motivation. They're trying  to hurt. Yeah, they're trying to take advantage right of me. They're trying to  ignore me. Right? And so we're consumed with the other person's motivation,  right? Not realizing our own right, you know, in what you're saying, I think, start  with your own because you might be the source, you might be the problem.  What's interesting too, is the self interest and selfishness. God wants us to love  God and neighbor as ourselves. So there is like to be self interested is itself is  not wrong but selfishness, if all I ever want to do is go golfing and forget you  Pam. You know, now that now my interest has moved on to a place and that  needs to be checked. Right? So there's selfishness where you're like, I'm going  to do this for me, and I know I'm doing it, right. And then there's the more subtle  one called self absorbedness. And that's where I am absorbed with myself. And  I'm not trying to hurt anybody, because I'm not aware of anyone else. I'm not  thinking of your needs, or your situation. So there's assumed selfish, self interest selfish, and self absorbed. They're all important and where you start to identify  your own motive, because I think selfishness, you're aware of why you're being  selfish, but self absorbed are often not aware unless we pause and ask this  question. So write down the history now, again, in some levels, when they get  deeper, you would probably do this write down the history factors, possibilities,  the really serious, we've been whiteboarding and family systems and now right,  where you're writing every motivation down, but in some ways, in your mind, if  it's a small issue, you know, the history of the situation. I mean, you could be  having an issue with your son. But it's because you had an issue with your  father. Yeah. And now you're transferred some of those same things to your son. So understanding where all this is coming from, right, just how it's like, take a  broader look, right, rather than just get lost in what's in front of, and we've often  seen as pastors and we'vwe talked about this in the past, where, if you don't  know where you're coming from, people just start reacting in the moment. And  you miss out on the discernment process, because of it. Identifying bitterness, in all of the parties involved, just sort of a past little bit, the same type of thing, but  it's really drilling down. And I think that bitterness is that's a good word, because  it's someone who coined the phrase of bitter roots, like a tree, in the root, the  root goes really deep. And so the longer you have an issue with someone, you  know, you have an issue with somebody did something, you're kind of angry,  and then you solve it, and it's done. Right. But when there's an issue, and then it festers, as long as that that root, grows deeper and stronger. And now it's not so  easy to take, right? And to so to understand whether this is just a temporary  conflict that we can get over, or is is a bitter root, that it's going to take some  effort to get past it, right. I mean, we could solve our little problem here. But I still have this bitterness that has been built up over the years. And that's the  problem, a lot of times in a marriage, or in the family system, where things have  not been dealt with, right. And then over time, this better root takes hold. And 

when there's a bitter root, everything they do is annoying, right? Everything they  say is, you see it from the most negative point of view that you can possibly  remember this lady in my church, who was angry at one of the other board  person. And finally she confessed it. She said, even when I come into the  parking lot, and I see your car, I get all tensed up just at your car, right? So  imagine that he says or does anything, right? It's just gonna keep so I find it  fascinating in our kind of conflicting role right now, if you watch the news, like  anything that politician has done, is wrong. You know, so use either the political  discernment in that theater. commit these things to prayer. And notice if any  spiritual warfare issues. You know a lot of times, behind the scenes, there are  warfare issues. And I know that when I pray about something to I will ask, Lord,  show me if there's any principality or power involved in this, and I'm surprised  sometimes the Lord does really let's pray about that. A lot of times, the  resolution of it is through the Holy Spirit. Right, somehow we've had this conflict, and then in the middle of the process, all of a sudden, there's a breakdown,  right? And it's like, something that was not on the table, is put on the table and in some kind of incredible resolution. Identify scripture that will shed light on  issues. So I think people don't often a lot of times we study the Bible,  (unintelligible). But are we good at taking a problem or a situation and going, is  there anything in the Bible that can help me. Right. Like in Galatians 6, those  who are spiritual should restore them gently but be careful that you don't fall.  Right. That's the interesting way to think about that. But that's an example of  scripture or it's amazing how scripture applies to so many things, it will actually  give a treasure chest of relational discernment. Now, there's I think a lot of  Christians, especially new Christians, just don't know how to do they don't know  how to identify a Scripture. They don't know where to even begin to learn. Right, right. How do you find these things? So you know, one way is to memorize  scripture, and then you have a bunch of them right there. And they're all you  study. And the more you learn, the more it's available to you. But the other way,  is, you can just look up words, right? You can go to these online Bible apps, and  you can search a word, bitterness, and you will find, you know, 50 the verses,  and you can quickly within five minutes, go through the entire Bible. Answers. As pastors, we over time, memorize, obviously, just come out of our head as many  of you are studying for ministry or growing the ministry, you will actually you'll  find passages come there, if you memorize them search for them, write a  sermon about one them. Ask the opinions of trustworthy Christian friends, who  are ministers or life coaches, and counselors, you know, that cannot be said  enough. I know like when I have a relational issue, or Steve does, we really  we're longtime friends, and we've been around ministry together since 1990 and one of my first phone calls to Steve about a relational issue. Right away, think to  myself, you know, I wonder what Steve thinks about this, or Brian DeCook  again, first, my wife, you see your process that and then you have this whole 

network of people that help you with discernment, right? Because a lot of times  in our relationship issue, we're blind, right? We just don't see what the issue is,  people around us, it's obvious to them. And so why not take advantage of the  collective wisdom, right. And that's really what the church is. A church is a group  of people with different gifts and abilities for the benefit and building up of one  another. And that doesn't mean you have to take someone's advice, or even  understand that, but why not have that ability to discern with others a snapshot  input into a discernment that you're trying to make. Develop some conclusions  and action plans remembering the prayer of serenity. Remember, in the prayer  of serenity, you know, you've done a class on the prayer of serenity, and a mini  class, and, you know, the prayer of serenity that one place, help me to change  what I can change are sort of like them. And to leave what I can't, and to know  the difference between what I can do something about and what I can't do  something about, and leaving something who can do something about it, and  you do it, some things you can't and you leave it to God, right? But the hard part  is to know when you do what, when do I just give it to God? When do I do  something about it? Sometimes that isn't very easy. So the rule of thumb is you  do what you can. And then But then God can, can come to you and let you  know, one way or another. So a lot of times the added prayer that I would make  to the prayer serenity is, Lord, I'm gonna go in this direction. If it's not the right  direction, please let me know. I know there's a powerful story of family who was  struggling with a bitterness about an elderly parent, and a brother and the sister  were in conflict over each other and, and that Christian brother has struggled  greatly over this and sought my advice and input. And there's a moment near  the death of that Father, that the sister came to visit out of town and there's so  much conflict. And it was while he was there, he actually lost his contenance.  And then the sister who wasn't used to taking care of called the brother to come  over. The brother came over and, and change the diaper, so to speak, of our old  father. And the father was complaining and and the brother had to get his  clothes down to almost nothing. Well, they were in a shower and there was  excrement all over. And when the brother came out of the bathroom, there was a miracle occurred, you know, and this prayer serenity where God shows up. This  brother could not do anything. But that moment the scales fall off. And healing  occurs, right. And I happen to know that, that brother and sister are now close to one another again, because it was about put into prayer. And sometimes that's  what happens in life isn't it? That the resolution is some incredible thing that no  one could have predicted, right. No one could have predicted and that's where.  Prayer is Lord, I don't have it all figured out. And I don't have it all figured out. So we invite you to intervene, right? And help us get through this. Now ask yourself  how you can bless others and yourself in the issue. So, you know, one of the  best ways to heal relationships is to share the healing with others. Right? And  you just gave an example. That example inspires other people to do likewise 

with one another. So, right. And really, sometimes in the sharing, you get healed, too, right. So now, what types of things might you do to find out in the discerning process? So we discern the relationship, the issue, the conflict, whatever it  might be, but then what might we learn? Well, in many cases, we might learn  that you know, what, you're incompatible things are not gonna work, right. So  you're asking about whether you should keep dating someone but you just find  out, you know, what we've gone through that process is not clear. It's not  compatible. For a friend, you know, you had something and now it's broken,  sometimes, friendships fall apart, or that friend, you're a new believer, and that  friend is going away from you. And you have to figure this out, like let the  unbeliever go, right. It is what it is. Number two, you may identify some issues to address. Conflict here, just preferences, you like this. I like that. And now what  are we gonna do about it right, right? Is it cultural? Sometimes things are so  cultural, that it's like you you might be able to address it and be able to really  have a meaningful relationship. Right? Cultural like, I think marriage a lot of  times, marriages have a lot of conflict, because you come from different  cultures. Every family cultures, right? If you don't quite understand, you know,  my wife came to a party, once a Christmas party with all my relatives, my  cousins, my aunts and uncles. And when we left, my wife is in tears. She was in  tears because my family is so loud, right. And she thought some people were  even angry at one another, and she's telling me all this and I'm going. What?  What are you talking about? We just love to have a good time. Well, her, her  family culture was quiet. I remember meeting her father, one of those quiet men. But I remember your family is loud. Elephant in the room, you know, sometimes  those are the things that are difficult. And you know, when I was younger, I  would say that I was one more to let the elephant in the room just be there in  there sort of like they're there. No one talks about them. So you address these  sides flavor and passive aggressive in and that's true for you, too. You and I  have turned to be pretty blunt old men. You know, we got here honestly, the  bible talks about the real thing, because otherwise it keeps festering, right. A lot  of times when people use sarcasm, they're not they're just going around the  edge. They're not getting they're not telling you what they really think they're  trying to soften it a little bit. Just kidding. No, you're not. You mean what you say  but you didn't want to get right into it. And so sometimes it's sarcasm, there's  possibly an elephant in the room. No. What else are things that tells you they're  passive aggressive? Which is sort of like sarcasm. They're very much related.  Sort of. Yeah, I like it when people start talking behind back. There's gossip  Yeah, gossip. There's a elephant in the room. You met with the person. You  didn't talk about it so you talk about it with someone else, right? Or you walk into a room, and all of a sudden everybody goes silent, right? And then there,  everyone is talking about there is an elephant in the room. What is it that  phrase, maybe some, some of you listening, have never heard of the elephant in

the room, the elephant in the room? I don't really know, well if an elephant was  in this room, and it would like dominate the whole thing, right, but this phrase  has come to mean, there's this thing that dominates this whole culture here in  this room. But we don't talk about it. And it's sitting right there. It's filling half the  room. Right. But we don't talk about it. Right. Right. And I know, just knowing  Steve and I over the years, I can assure you, and again, when you say this, and  you'll leave the elephant in the room. That's how it goes sometimes. But where  sometimes, Why will old people get grumpy. And I've analyzed, like my father,  you know, he died at 99. And sometimes my kids will, they will grampa's a little  grumpy today or something. And I was thinking about it. And I never really  noticed it. And the reason I didn't notice it is, as I get older, I appreciated, called  elephants in the room. I almost went too far. Like there's only to me when these  are little elephants, little elephants. But you can see how you can get like that. If  you're running a or leading a church or running a business. And there are some  things that are happening that are hurting ministry or productivity. Eventually you become like, you know what, we just got to get everyone together to talk about  this. I don't know if I right now we're talking about right now is almost no one  wants to deal with that elephant, right? It's easier, just forget it. Even in  marriage, I mean, think about, like, you know, we've been married, you've been  married how many years now? 40 something. (mumbling) I said 38. I just had  my anniversary so I remember it. But the point is, is I know like, we're much  more we have the skill more now to deal with elephants in the room now more  than the early days, or how do we bring in dealing with relationship is hard,  right? Most people don't want to go into the hard. So let's kind of wrap this up  with discernment model with Christians. So first person discernment model  always look where you are on first. So this is coming up a lot of the stuff you  guys got earlier. This is the hard part because it's easier to blame. Right? It's  everybody else's fault , your wife's fault, your kids fault, the work fault, the  political fault, the church's fault, the pastor's fault. But but in the beginning, you  should start out with where's my role in this? I mean, others might be at fault too. But start with your role in this issue. And confidentially meeting to identify the  issues in some ways, this sounds like a formal thing very applies. So you can  whenever there's an issue it always should be directly, Matthew 18, go directly  to the person, and then don't talk behind anyone's back. Do the discernment  process with them? The little things we have talked to earlier? What's involved  who said what, look at them before concluding and trying to resolve that to at  least spend a little time together? What is the thing? Right? Can we talk about  the thing? The elephant in the room. with permissions of all parties, if needed,  including trusted and confidential personnel this is like that. Matthew 18, if you  cannot resolve a go to the owner of a church, but again, with permission. With  permission includes those who really directly from Matthew 18, leaders from the  church. Now really, by this time, you're mostly resolved. Things can be resolved.

If you just go directly to the person. There's a conflict. Someone's offended you  said something you did something right didn't do something. Generally, most  conflict is based on a misunderstanding, right? Most of it. Not always, but most  of the time. And if we go with humble attitude, you know, what's my part in it?  Generally, if you go with a humble attitude, and you listen to their side and try to  understand them before giving your side generally I have found that that issue  goes away. I've many times I've gone into a church member who's upset with  the church or upset with me, and I'll take an elder with me And before we walk  into the house, I'd say, Okay, we're going to listen for one hour before we say  anything, that's really, I tell you, probably eight out of 10 times when we would  do that, and do it religiously. By the time that half an hour is done, the person  has gone. I guess I'm not that I wasn't mad at you, I was mad at this, and this  and that. And they started explaining their own situation and their own issue and their own problems. Right. And it's amazing. You just standing there watching it  happen. They go from blaming you to either blaming themselves, or the real  thing. I often find too, if you listen long enough, whatever they accuse you of,  they themselves have a whole life filled with that, right. So if they're really  critical, that's how they treat their spouse, right. But they're critical of you as a  ministry leader, right? And you listen long enough, and you'll come in where  you'll hear that I told Esther that she needs and if you listen long enough. And  then finally, that truth comes out. And what I mean by listening, you're listening  to such a degree, that they have a sense that you understand hear them, that  you heard everything that Speaker 1 26:18 I'm repeating. Okay, here's what I  hear you saying, is this what you're saying? And then they go, no, no, no, I need to know more. Because I really want to understand you. I'm not trying to correct  you. Right? I'm not trying to enlighten you, I am trying to just understand you to  the point where you believe I understand you. You know, I think that when you  bring if it gets to the point where you bring another elder of the church or a  leader, this is especially true where you listen, to be heard, you know, I brought  George here because we really want to know how you're feeling? Okay, now,i 's  not just me, Pastor, it's with George or Sarah or whatever, and now you're there, and you're listening. But it's really hard because they say some things that are  false. Yes. And you want to defend yourself, you want to correct them. But  remember, you're just trying to even if they said something false. Well, why did  they say something false? Right? I'm curious as to why you said that, you know,  I really want to know, okay, now, you'll get your turn after listening long enough  that it's like, Okay, I've tried to understand you and do you think that I  understand you? I think you I think you're? Now, could I share my side of the  story? Would you try to understand my side of the thing? And then if that person  can do that, then we go, okay, we both listen to each other, we have identified  the issues in remember when you share your side do not be defensive. Right?  You know, you know, I saw how you looked at that? No, no, it's just like, you 

know, to see how to share how you feel without attacking or defending, you  know, try to identify the issues, don't try to defend your position, right? And then  when all said and done, okay, we listened to each other. What can we do?  Right? What do you want from me? What can I do for you? How can we fix this? One more here with unbelievers lower, lower, lower, lower expectations. I mean,  you really do see in I've seen to the difference in you know, being a believer  makes a huge difference in the whole discernment process. To understand that,  you know, when you're talking to someone, they may not share your worldview.  Right. Right. What is the goal with the relational discernment process?  Ultimately, therefore, if anyone is in Christ is a new creation, the old is gone, the  new has come. All of this was from God who reconciled us to Himself through  Christ, and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, that Christ was reconciling the  world to himself in Christ, that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting him in sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation, right so reconciliation is the goal and notice it only happens  when men's sins are not counted against them, right grace, again without  without grace, relationships fall apart, right love if you cannot love your brother,  who you've seen how can you love God who you have not seen. Love, grace,  love your neighbor, I mean relationship, you know, for what motivates relational  discernment, there's love and reconciliation and bringing people together. You  know, right, relational discernment is not necessarily easy to do. But the benefits of actually, you know, knowing, like I remember I had a lot of conflict with my  father. As a strong, you're always writing the kind of person. And so the oldest is  a we would always end up in some kind of conflict. And I've never seen him cry  in my life. He was a strong fireman, fireman. And, you know, so there was a lot  of conflict there. But I remember one day we were fighting about something in  the kitchen. I remember I was on the farm in the kitchen, and we were fighting.  And my dad was six foot four 250 pounds, I'm five foot eight. Huge guy, what  happened to you? I don't know. But I remember all of a sudden, he just broke  down and cried. I've never seen him cry ever in my life. And then he started  telling me about his father. And, you know, really explaining why he was the way he was right? Because of a relational issue that he had with his father. And he  didn't want to be his father. He didn't want to be like his father, but he didn't  know how to do it any differently. Right. So, you know, he didn't change a lot  after that. But I did, because I now discerned what was behind what he did,  right. So the more you know about people and who they are, and why they do  what they do. It doesn't necessarily take all the issues away. But it definitely  helps you deal with it in a different way. I saw things in a different light. And  that's true about most every relationship. If you really understood someone  where they're coming from, how they were raised, what kind of parents they  had, that the difficulties they've been through. I can, I can deal with you. Right, I  can handle this dysfunction, right? Because I understand where it's coming. It's 

coming from hurt. There's a phrase that says hurt people hurt people, right? So  if you understood their hurt, you'd be able to deal with it. So discernment is a  critical piece in the relationship. So I'm so glad you're able to join with us and we pray that God will bring more love into all your relationships as you are  relationally discerning things.