Video Transcript: Moral or Grateful Living Discernment

Henry - So welcome back to Christian discernment. And there is such a thing as  moral discernment. Right?  

Steve - Moral what does the word moral even mean?  

Henry - Really, there's even different major subjects, moral philosophy we had a  Professor we were talking with who taught moral philosophy. And I remember  one time, we were talking about it when we were golfing. And he said, You know, there's debate about what moral philosophy actually is. No kidding. And he said,  well, the modernists see it one way the post modernists see it another way  Christians see it another way. So our discernment is from the Christian point of  view.  

Steve - I mean, I suppose the simplest is, it's about right and wrong. Right?  There are right things to do are wrong. Where do we get that? Where do you  discern what is right, and what is wrong?  

Henry - Well, the garden of Eden, the knowledge of the tree of good and evil  seems like the morality issue got introduced right a way?  

Steve - All right, what is moral life?  

Henry - For a believer in Jesus Christ, it starts with a relationship. And both of us came from a background where we studied the Heidelberg Catechism,  

Steve - reformation back in, the Reformers felt the need to look at the Bible, and then sort of extract broad topics out of it, and questions that the Bible answers,  yes.  

Henry - And one of them was this question, since we've been delivered from our  misery. So again, creation, fall, sin by grace through Christ, without any merit of  our own, in other words, no moral philosophy or no moral actions saved us. But  

then there's this question we'll then why are we morally alive? Are we moral at  all pleasure? Why do we do good work? Why should we do what's right? Right?  If Christ paid for our sins completely? Is there any obligation any need even do  anything right? anymore? Right?  

Steve - I mean, that's a good question. This is from the Heidelberg Catechism.  Because Christ, having redeemed us by His blood is also restoring us by His  Spirit into His image. So that with our whole lives, we may show that we are  thankful to God for His benefits, so that he may be praised through us so that 

we may be assured of our faith by its fruits. And so that by our godly living, our  neighbors may be won over to Christ.  

Henry - In a lot of ways, there's a lot of moral living moral discernment in this,  like, born thankfulness to God, for His benefits, right.  

Steve - So the motivation to be moral, to do the right thing is not to earn your  salvation.  

Henry - Right, right. Right. I noticed a lot of times, people when they're not  believers, and they see I'm a pastor, and we get into some kind of relationship  around the golf course, or whatever. They assume, because I'm the Minister, a  Christian, that my morality is my most important thing and they'll say things like,  you know, well, you know, oh, someone just cussed or something on the golf  course, you're right away. Like, that's what they're going to say. I'm sorry, Pastor. They actually define me by my moral life. And they don't see that my religion, my relationship with God is a foundational thing. Have you noticed that, too.  

Steve - Let's go back to that slide. Because it talks about a few reasons of how  this works itself out. The foundation is thankfulness. Okay? We're not. We're not  trying to do the right thing. Because if we do the right thing, God will love us.  Right. That's religion, for most of religion is spelled DO is what you do that gives  you something. Christianity is spelled DO and done. Christ died on the cross for  us, but now we are moral not to earn something, but because we've got  something I mean, when someone gives you something for free, do you kick  them in the shins? Or do you say, Wow, thank you. Is there anything I can do for you? And now you're doing it motivated? You're not doing it to get anything  you're doing it because you've gotten something. But there there are three  benefits that the Heidelberg Catechism mentions here so that he may be  praised through us. So, another reason we do it, it's not just because we're  thankful. It's also because we get to be emissaries of praise to God, right?  

Henry - We align with God, the way he set things up. How to love God. How to  love our neighbor, we align with that, where we glorify Him through us. 

Steve - And then Then secondly, we are assured of our faith by our fruits. In  other words, my moral life, lets me know, I am on the right track. Yeah, I am. I  am. I do, there must be some faith because I am responding in gratitude and  trying to do the right thing, that the right thing is something on my mind, and  something I want to do is evidence that God is right. 

Henry - I mean, when we get married, we want to not cheat on our wife, right?  But love her, even if the temptation. No, that is wrong, it is wrong, because it  doesn't glorify God. It is wrong, because my wife but it's just wrong. You know,  we have that like a sense, a conscience, we develop a conscience and you  know that passage by their fruits you will know them, right. So that even goes on like fruits, give evidence and competence. 

Steve - And then, finally, and so that by our godly living our neighbors, maybe  won over to Christ, so they see that we're people that do the right thing. That is  a winning, even if they misinterpret us first. Right? As Oh, you're so moral, but  

still, there's something about it that they notice and respect. The 10  commandments. The 10 commandments are actually in the Heidelberg  Catechism. There are three sections to the Heidelberg Catechism. The first  section is the Heidelberg Catechism is centered around this what do you need  to know to live and die in the confidence of the grace of God through what Jesus did? And catechism those that were? My only comfort in life belong to my faithful savior. So, but the whole thing is organized around sin, I have to know my sin,  and then I have to know my salvation. So it's sin, salvation, and then thankful  service, which is what we're talking about the morality part. So we have sin  section, right? We have the being saved section. And then we have the living in  grateful morality as a response to what God has done now where do you think  the 10 commandments? Grateful reality? Now, what you would think it would be  under sin, right, that 10 commandments are telling you what kind of sinner you  are, here's all the laws. And these laws are convicting you of not doing the right  thing, but the Heidelberg Catechism very interestingly, put them under gratitude.  Grateful service. I mean, they could go under sin because obviously, the law  tells you where you are. Right?  

Henry - It's interesting. The Heidelberg Catechism when talks about sin in law, it  talks about loving God and your neighbor as yourself. And then have you really  loved God, neighbor? No, you have dropped the ball there and you need a  savior, but when then we're to talk about you have the Savior and you come to  faith. And then it like, pours out how do you lean into service in service reality  loving and morality then it's the whole 10 commandments.  

Steve - And I love that sort of a positive. How then shall we live kind of thing  right? In, in gratitude, not servitude, not. You know, we have to do this or God  will strike us down. Or, you know, we have to do this or God won't love us God is this. You know, Father, who is a strict father who is hard to please. God loves us  as we are. And once we received that grace, we want to respond by living for  Him. So let's let's go through the 10 commandments here. Okay, and God  spoke, all these words are saying, I am Yahweh, your God, who brought you out

of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage so that people have been led  out of bondage in Egypt by Moses, Moses goes up and gets the 10  commandments. And here they are. So the people don't know who God is at all,  right? They don't know who they are, other than slaves. They don't know what  their future is. They know nothing. And it's very interesting that this is how God  tells them who he is. Right? and who they are or their potential,  

Henry - You shall have no other gods before Me, you shall not make for yourself  any idol, nor any image of anything in the heavens above, or the earth beneath,  or the the water under the earth, you shall not bow down to them for nor serve,  serve them for I, your God and a jealous god visiting the iniquity of the fathers,  on the children on the third in the fourth generations of those who hate me, and  showing loving kindness to 1000s, who love Me and keep My commandments,  okay? That's the first commandment, the second commandment. So no other  gods and don't worship God through something else. Right.  

Steve - And really, this is like the Cornerstone is really the cornerstone of we  talked earlier about worldviews and how the common worldview is now trying to  take God out of everything. The 10 commandments starts with the assumption  that God is there, right? And that he is your God. And he's not to be competed  with nothing. Anything else that you accept as God, you're settling for something he created, He created. You shall not take the name of Yahweh your God in vain for Yahweh will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. And a lot of  people do this. They take God's name in vain, right? They'll say things like God  dammit, or Jesus Christ or something, or they'll even do my parents were even.  You shouldn't say, Oh, my God, or, or even Oh, my gosh. which is short for God. Right? Yeah.  

Henry - And in our home that was considered you don't cross that line. Honor  the Lord your God and don't use His name in vain? Don't pray no, don't worship  gods. I mean, that was talked about every Sunday when we went to church, the  10 commandments were read.  

Steve - Now, it's interesting. In terms of discernment, you know, I, there are two  schools of thought on this, when you hear someone that you're with swear you  should correct them. Right, right. That that's a horrible thing that they just done,  

and I should correct them. And usually that doesn't go well. I look at I look at it  more like because it is offensive. But I look at it like a great barometer to  someone is sharing where they're truly at. So when they take the name of the  Lord in vain, they're just telling me their connection to God. And they're revealing something deep. And so now I know what my challenge is with them. So I  appreciate it. I don't try to correct it. Because if I can, I can correct them. And 

you know, all they would do is not swear around me. Right? But they're still  going to do it. But I'm interested in them actually getting to know the God that  they're swearing about, right?  

Henry - Because it 's interesting on the golf course when somebody says like  the G D, and all of those things, and oh pastor I'm sorry. I say, you know what,  Thank you. Thank you for your sensitivity. And I'd appreciate if you stay away  

from the G D words and the taking God's name in vain words, where God...  Does that mean? I can say a few other things? I'm okay with that. They give me  a smile. No, I'm not totally okay with it. No, but, but I'm making it light. But I'm  still giving that witness a little bit that, you know, and then they do say, Well, why don't you want to use that G D? You know, but as long as I don't judge them, I  give them a compliment for being respectful to say, Oh, I'm sorry, Minister or  pastor. Very interesting.  

Steve - Remember, one time I was skiing, and it was a long run, and some guy  had wide skis. I said, Well, how do those work? And he's telling me how great  they are. And don't give him I don't understand. Finally, he was frustrated with  my skepticism. And he said, Why don't you just go on rent up your wide skis, for  Christ's sake. And when he said that, I said, I know him too. Right? And he said  to me, you know who? I said, Christ. Christ. I said, Yeah. He said, Well, what  does that have to do with our discussion? And I said, I don't know. You brought  him up. You said, go rent them for Christ's sake. So then I then proceeded to tell him about Christ, share my faith. And now we're running out and he's being  skeptical because he's being skeptical and finally we're getting to the end of the  run, and finally, I was getting frustrated with him. And I said, well don't take my  word for it, why don't you try him out for Christ's sake. So, you know, there are  ways that you can engage with people. And it's a great discerning tool. And  there are a lot of different ways of dealing with that. But, but as a Christian, you  know, it's also a good discerning tool for yourself, right? If you find yourself using God's name in vain, right, that tells you something too, right?  

Henry - One thing I really feel strongly about with the first few commandments,  about no other gods, and don't create an image, and we can talk about them in  the details or taking God's name in vain is really do you and I really respect  God? That's a sign of I find that if I what do I have a passive aggressive thing  against God, we're gonna actually constantly have to swear, what's my issue?  And if someone else does that, what's their issue? Right. Now, here's one thing  is if somebody is swearing and cussing a lot, it does mean they do have a  relationship. I remember one time I said to a guy who said to me, I don't believe  in anything, you know? And, and then I remember one time, he asked me a few  too many beers. And he said, You know, I said, so I'm gonna go back and ask 

you, you don't believe in anything. And I can sometimes be a little wondering  about that, because you're always talking about them all the time. Because I  asked him, I think he had too any beers or whatever. And he was talking  constantly, and every other word was, you know, G D, and all that. But you  know, it's really interesting. We have about a half hour discussion about why,  because I wasn't judgmental. See that's that nuance that to be careful. But in  there still at the heart of the heart of the heart, people are related to God  somehow. Or some god. You know, when we say about everyone has a  religious, a religious perspective, a worldview, that's actually breaking off in the  second commandment, where they're worshipping, an image something in  creation, right? So there's, the first commandment is to have another God. I  don't know if people think to themselves, they need a new age God or some  pagan guy could be better. But then the second commandment is taking  something that God made, like science. And there they're locking on that. And  then they're in most of them to say that they have no religious perspective. from  a religious perspective. No, you are breaking the second commandment by  elevating something in creation. Like postmoderns elevate yourself still in the  center of the universe? Yes. But you're really, you're still religious. And then the  third commandment is taking God's name in vain and that sort of a passive  aggressive commandment, like, you know, he's there, but you don't want to  glorify him.  

Steve - Yeah, or it's interesting that why people use God's name in vain  generally, is because they want to put some weight, more weight to what they're  saying. Yeah. And, in other words, it's, we're as human beings we're looking for  weight, we're looking for meaningful, or something more than what is more than  what we see. So again, even when people are swearing, they're acknowledging  that they're looking for something more important in their life. Right? And so  again, in some ways, you're discerning all the nuances of what's going on  behind the scenes with with this whole topic  

Henry - We'll move on to the next one now, but I will say this, we thought about  this a lot. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, you shall not use a laborer in six days and do all your work. But the seventh day is the Sabbath. Yeah, that  your God should not do any work on it. And you, nor your son, nor your daughter and your man servant or your maid servant, your cattle and stranger was in your gates. For in six days Yahweh made the heaven and earth, the sea and all that  

is in them, and the rest of the seven day, therefore, you have blessed the  Sabbath day and made it holy, Honor your father and your mother. And your  days will be long in the land the Lord your God gives you now there's two things  here. Yeah. You know, but what's so moral about rest about worshiping God  about taking time for their you know, I mean, when we grew up, we didn't do 

anything on Sunday. Go to church twice. worship all day. And then it was hard  for a boy to do all those things. That was our lifestyle.  

Steve - I think, in order to be moral to do the right thing requires a philosophy of  life. This is what I want to do. This is how I want to live, right? And life is so busy  with things that just happen to you that I think people one day just rolled, and  then the next day rolls into the next day. And in the busyness of our modern life,  we never stop or reflect on anything, right? And this pattern of, you know,  working six days and then taking one day off. And, you know, I know for, for my  family growing up, Sunday was a bit boring. They weren't I mean, you couldn't  do anything. So there was way more reflection and more time for just going,  okay. We're not playing sports today. There was something you we were not  allowed to watch it we, I mean, so we had to spend time with the family or the  gym at the  

Henry – And my dad played accordion and I played saxophone and because  there's nothing else to do, worship and playing music was acceptable, right? So, but I learned a lot of the older, Sweet By-and -By the saxophone and great  memories of my father, and all of those things happen, because we took the  time to do that.  

Steve - And you know, the one in seven, there's like a pattern. Every year, we  move the year, calendar forward, right at the end of the year, you reflect on the  last year, I mean, it really is just the sun, or the earth, going around the sun, and  spinning and all those things. It means nothing in some ways. But because we  have these patterns, these recurring patterns, we stop, you know what your  birthday is, I'm another year older, you know, you reflect on your life. And that's  what the Sabbath was a weekly reflection point, and stopping and going, Okay,  what is life all about? How do I fit into this? What am I living for? Why am I doing the things that I'm doing? You know, we go to church, we hear the word of God,  we pray, we sing, we're, we're part of the church community. And all those things are reminding us of a way of life. Right? And that's what morality is morality is  living a certain way the early Christians, were called the people of the way,  right? Because it was a lifestyle. Right? 

Henry - I love the fact that when businesses apply this, when appropriate, like  Chick fil A, who's closed on Sunday, right. I think that's, I love that I love any  business or any ministry to or days off. Intentionality, I think part of the Sabbath  thing is also taking 15 minutes a day to pray. Right? So to have that time of  reflection. Now the next one is Honor your father and your mother. Why is that  moral? Like why would in grateful living that will be on this list? I mean, we live 

in a parent, or actually a child centered, gentle parenting mode just goes the  opposite way.  

Steve - Well, I think a lot of our relationships, I would call the upper  relationships, in authority over your work, you know, you might have a boss,  right? You have parents, you have uncles, and aunts. You have your pastor,  your elders, you have God. There's a lot of relationships that are built this way.  Right? And you submit yourself in these relationships and a part of it. And part of the benefit of us admitting to those in authority over you is the people that your  authority over they see how you treat people with authority. Right? They're more  likely to follow that lead and treat you that way. And society is greatly benefited  by it yes, if you are rebellious against every authority in your life, then why would your kids follow you? Why would your people at work follow you, they're gonna  be rebellious against you. So the benefits kind of go every you know every  direction. I think that's part of the Honor your father and mother that your days  may be long in the land. I mean, good things happen to people who can respect  and not just write it not just with your parents, but with your children. They go  both ways.  

Henry - They see how you treat your parents and you teach them how to respect you when you're old. Powerful then there's this list here that is by how to love  your neighbor. Do you shall not murder doesn't make relationships go very well.  Jesus reflected on that. If you hate your brothers and sisters are you killed them  in your heart?  

Steve - And a lot of relationships are killed. I mean, maybe that person isn't  killed. But we have relational cemeteries that, you know, we have this  relationship if something happens, or something doesn't matter, lack of  forgiveness, all that happened, you shall not commit adultery. And you know,  that's the whole fabric of monogamy, marriage, all of these things. In some  ways, you shall not commit adultery doesn't seem so practical to so many  people are not even getting married.  

Steve - Or don't betray. Trust. Right? Don't break your promises, your relational  promises. I mean, that's really adult. You made a promise. Right? And now  you're breaking, retrained, whether I'm married spouse, or any relation, friend,  even though you're betraying gossip, really? is adultery, always betraying a  relationship you're talking negatively about someone behind their back? They're  not there to defend themselves. You're giving an impression to other people that  they can't combat? Right. So what does it breed it breeds distrust and  brokenness, anger, frustration. You shall not steal. The things that belong to you, right? You should not give false testimony against your neighbor. Lying. 

Steve - Most of these things you can see are about trust or not trust.  

Henry - They're like self evident thing. You shall not covet your neighbor's  house, You should not covet your neighbor's wife or his manservant or  maidservant, or his donkey or anything that is your neighbor's. So what do you  make of the last one coveting? Why is coveting moral covet? I mean, I've looked at like, you know, equity theory where you compare, you know, like, You're my  father, were very humble man. Mechanical and mother is effective worker, and I  never heard them once. Coveting what the rich people of the community of the  rich people, the church, like my dad would always say, you know, Ted, he used  his wealth to bless others. And what a great guy and, and then some, Mr. Bourg  was the guy who set up a company where my mom worked in the night in World  War II, see worked off from my childhood. And we're so grateful that Mr. Bourg  set up this company that my mom, my mom does eight hours a day, with their  fingers, see put parts into little clocks eight hours a day. And my mom would be  like, she was so grateful for our opportunity. Never, I've never heard her thinking  like, the Bourgs have this state house or because they were taught not to covet  anything that belonged to their neighbor and to live the life God has. Right?  

Steve - Coveting is sort of like a gateway to a lot of moral breaking. Because,  you know, when you covet something, now, you end up blaming, why didn't I get this? You blame your parents, you blame God, right? Now, you're more apt to  steal, you're more apt to commit adultery them at all. sort of thing that sets you  up to break all the other commands. So I think it's one of the most, you know, it's the most destructive thing, really, because it sets you up to a host of other  issues that come into our lives. So that's why I think it's the last one. And that's  why I think it's part of this list.  

Henry - So to wrap this all up, we're talking about discerning morality, and starts  in a relationship with Jesus Christ. And then out of the gratitude, a relationship  we care about doing right or wrong. Morality does matter. You know, it's not just  optional. It's something that shows the confidence of our actual walk with God.  

Steve - And I think that command right in the middle, sorta, it can go both ways.  You know, we're supposed to honor our father and mother, that our days may be long and I think that little phrase really can be applied. All of them, like we love  God above all else, first four commandments. And we love our neighbor as  ourselves as the next six commandments, that it may go well in the days of our  lives for all eternity, because morality is not only just being thankful to God, it's  also the best way to live, pleasure theory, you know, people are after pleasure,  they want to be happy. Well, the happy life is living the way God set it up. Right. 

And that's doing the right thing.  

Henry - And all the pleasure comes will follow. Very good.  Steve - All right.