Video Transcript: Calling Discernment

Henry - Welcome back to Christian discernment. Henry Reyenga here with  Steve Elzinga. And today we're gonna talk about something close to many of  those called in the ministry and that is actually calling discernment or ministry  calling discernment. I Corinthians 1:26-27. brothers think of think of what you  were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards.  Not many were influential, Not many were of noble birth. But God chose the  foolish things of the world to shame the wise. God chose the weak of the world  to shame the strong.  

Steve - So this verse, a lot of times I think, Christians think they're not called  because they look at themselves and they go, I'm not that talented, or not  connected to the right people. And we look at all the things that negate who we  are,  

Henry - or you've been through some experience, you've gone through that  divorce, you have been abused in your life. You disqualified yourself. Rich  DeVos used to say, people do that, Henry, they disqualify themselves. 

Steve - But this verse clearly suggest that it's not about all those things. It's  about God's calling of your life.  

Henry – His calling not your self judgment of yourself. Right?  

Steve - So. So how do you how do you? How do you connect to the calling that  God has in your life? And sort of get through all the negativity around you?  Because it's not only self negativity, that keeps you from knowing the call that  you have from God, but it's people around you. You think you you're called to  something, you know, people sometimes will judge you, because of whatever  they've seen at your worst right? Am I a Christian? So that's the first calling if  you will. Am I a Christian? So how do you discern whether you're a Christian or  not?  

Henry - Well, first of all, is I have experienced in my own life, is when I gave  myself to Lord in every young, and then kept doing that in various phases. What  started happening is, I really thought about the Lord, His presence a lot. I  thought about the whole Christian narrative about the Bible meant something to  me, that the words of the Bible. I processed sin differently than people I knew  who did not process sin. That way, I mean, I wanted to love. Even though  intuitively, for my human nature, I didn't feel love for that person. I actually  looked at that person, as somebody a broken spirit, like me. And a conviction  came that I need God. God is the center of my life. And I need him and I want to 

live for him. But I want to bring as many people to Heaven with Me as possible. I probably gave me way too much.  

Steve - I think you know, some would make it so simple that, well, if you gave  your life to Christ, you're called. You are a Christian, because you did that. But I  think like in the Heidelberg Catechism, it says that your good works are  evidence that you have faith. Why do you need evidence that you have faith  because a lot of times we're charlatans about, you know, we, we say we've  given our life to Christ, but we didn't even know what that meant. What does it  mean? In some ways, giving your life to Christ is a process that happens over a  lifetime. And that's why I like what you said that you've given your life to Christ  many times. Because, you know, someone said, the last thing to get converted  is your billfold. You know, that Christians, okay, I'll accept this. I'll accept this,  Lord, I'll accept heaven, which I sort of like. Right, right. But I'm not giving you  this part of my life, and I'm not giving it but over time. You know, Christ becomes  Lord of more and more of our lives. So  

Henry - That was interesting for both  vision partners have written you  know, Christ is Lord and now, my money and we want to make sure that we  share with others. It's fascinating, that comes to a lot of people.  

Steve - So the verse that we have here is for God so loved the world, that He  gave His one and only Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but  have everlasting life. So obviously believe is the core. The key thing. But again,  belief is something that can grow. Right? You can have a stronger belief or a  weaker belief. And so being a part of a Christian community, all the Christian  living every All of that helps you confirm the calling that you have.  

Henry - Exactly. So then what is my purpose? Why did God call me here? And  we read in Romans 8:28. And we know that in all things, God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called, according to His purpose.  

Steve - So we're going to look at this whole purpose. Under these categories,  we'll look at gifts. How do you know that you've been called it was, God gives  gifts. God uses the interest that you have God gives you certain opportunities,  

God may give you a specific calling, and we'll talk about that. And then there's a  confirmation of all these things, right? So we're going to look at each one of  these.  

Henry - So first of all gifts. And we see in I Corinthians 1:7, therefore you do not  lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be  revealed. 

Steve - Right. And there's another verse in I Corinthians 12, that talks about how a gift has been given to each one for the good of all. 

Henry - there's many gifts passages in the New Testament. So as you discern  your calling, are there gifts, that you that you'd like to lay at the feet of Jesus,  

Steve - or looking at your gifts, may help you discern what you're exactly called  because God is going to give you a gift, right? That coincides with your calling.  So if he gives you the gift of leadership, then maybe your calling is to lead a  Bible study, or to lead a church or to God has given you the gift of mercy. Right.  And you might become a deacon, you'll take courses. A mercy, Deacon. Yeah.  So you know, your gifts, maybe coincide with your calling. So discovering your  gifts is a great way to figure out what your calling is. Interest interest,  

Henry - Be shepherds of God's flock. That is under your care serving as  overseers. Not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants  you to be not greedy for money, but eager to serve. I remember when I was  called to ministry, I believe my first sort of impression of calling came from my  grandma, and my cousin and I were fishing, we came up on my grandma said,  kids come in here, you know, I thought I was in trouble. Not really, I wasn't in  trouble. And my grandma read from Jeremiah 1. Before I formed you in the  womb, I knew you and passage of time before you were born. And as she said  that, for no particular reason, something quickened in my spirit. And there are no ministers in my family. I don't even know what a minister did. But I felt like God  has a plan for me, Henry. And I felt that, I felt that sense of the holiness, that  there was something God wanted me to do for my life. I was confirmed, are we  talking about desperation later, but that calling in those moments of calling  occurred various times? Right.  

Steve - So how did that? How does that relate to interest?  

Henry - Well, how after that I became interested in what the minister did, I  became interested in what, you know, the elders, ministers in our church, the  deacon ministers in our church did. I became interested in church things, I  listened to sermons more, you know, all of a sudden, something, I felt even  more remorseful when I sinned, you know, so, my interest in the things of God,  of studying the Bible. 

Steve – You know when I first went to college I was pre med. So I enrolled in  biology, and chemistry. And I enrolled in psychology. So I'm taking these  classes, I couldn't stand biology, right, I couldn't stand. But why people do what 

they do, and helping people and all those things became my interest. And so I  thought I was interested in something. But God took my interest. What I'm trying  to say is, sometimes God uses your interest to direct you and to start leading  you down a certain direction. Maybe it doesn't feel like a calling at first. Right?  Okay. But, you know, so I thought I was interested in something and I went down that trail and you know, only to discover. I really want to work with people. I don't want to sit in the lab and chromosomes and all these things I want to I want to  deal with people. So God used my interests. I don't even know what they were  right. And he started pushing me in that direction. And, you know, little by little he used my interest in all kinds of other influences to get me get in.  

Henry - So, like calling an interest in ministry can be something like I felt I have  that moment. You, you experienced little pieces of that moment. Right, until it  coalesced together in a self aware moment, I am actually interested in serving  the Lord in ministry.  

Steve - In fact, I was like, I felt so not like a Minister, I didn't, I thought, I think I  want to do ministry, but probably not. As a pastor. I didn't see myself in that role.  It took God more convincing and pushing and shoving, to bring that about, but  but he started me down the trail, right. 

Henry - And today, especially as, as we understand it, more to the back of our  day, there was really a career box of minister. Today, there weren't a lot of  options. Today, you can live in, lean into the passages of their many gifts, many  ministries. And it was a different day. And you and I there was one option. 

Steve - I would love to have done it again, today.  

Henry - And world view. And in fact, who knows? If we'd have been like bi  vocational, like ministrybiz, we don't have no right to It's okay. I mean, those are  all the days and God has purposes, all of these interests. Well, ministry calling to something. This is what we speak not in words taught us by human wisdom, but  in words taught by the Spirit expressing spiritual truth in spiritual words. Now,  that's like a minister here. And I think that some of us, you know, understand that calling to something.  

Steve - Or, you know, people have a calling, I met a guy playing pickleball, he  went to seminary, and he led a church for a while. But then he, he got introduced to this whole sex trafficking thing. And that that just clicked for him. And so he's  spent the next 15 years of his life in a ministry trying to do something about that  he felt specific calling to a specific thing. 

Henry - Have you? Have you experienced a specific calling to a specific thing?  

Steve - I'm still looking for that. I think, you know, in the beginning, I remember  when I was in seminary. You know, my wife is into music. I was sort of into  music, but I was too shy about it, and not confident. And then I met another guy  at seminary, he was really good. And his wife was really good. And we formed a  singing group. And we traveled all around the United States and Canada for  three months. And I remember doing that thinking, I'm going to do something,  but I have no idea when I knew that God wanted to use me, right? In fact, I was,  I was in Gallup, New Mexico. And I was leading a group of young people from  the summer and the ministry thing there. And I took them to the Temple of  something, some crazy church that was downtown, and didn't know a thing  about it. But they were like, out there. They were having a revival. So I took  these young people thinking these people are going to experience something.  And this revival guy was going on, and you know, doing his revival thing, and  then he stopped and he went around, and he came up to me. And he pointed to  me, and he said, God is gonna do great things through you. And he went on and on. And then he went off. One of these crazy people that they, you know, they  pick up somebody especially from our background, right? And I'm suspicious.  Now, a year later, I'm at Calvin seminary. This was in Gallup, New Mexico. Now  we're in Grand Rapids and Calvin seminary. And I'm having lunch, just with  some guys. And there's some guy sitting there that I don't know, I've never met  him. And we're talking and then finally he looks at me and goes, I was there. You were where? I was in Gallup, New Mexico at the temple of whatever. You were  there and this guy and then he told me what that guy said. Now what are the  chances of some guy in, you know, first of all, we just went to the random temple of something church in Gallup, New Mexico, and the chances of this guy being  there. And then us being at Calvin seminary a year later. I mean, okay. So I don't know, the evangelist was a buffoon or whatever, but God can speak through a  donkey.  

Henry - So that's how you find those things in our back. Yeah, that would have  been not out of the norm.  

Steve - Right. But my point is that God can call you through a lot of experiences, you cannot predict how God's doing, he might do it to interest you might do  through a grandmother that calls you,  

Henry - or evangelists in the temple in Arizona, confirmed by another believer in  Grand Rapids. Here's my question. How could I have known you 31 years?  Never heard this story. First time, everybody. I thought I heard every story but I  have not heard that story, well, the Holy Spirit wanted you to hear it today. And 

everybody else. What do you know? And I think that's true. I do believe that God gives words about very specifically, I believe, that God has called us in 30, some year relationship, right. We've started ministries. We were mentored by Rich  DeVos. I believe the Lord has given us to do specifically what we've been doing.  And including people like Dr. Feddes, many, Brian DeCook a whole host of  people that God has called specifically to do something.  

Steve - And he's called us specifically to talk to you today. Yes, this wherever  you are, right now, God has ordained this moment, for his calling in your life.  

Henry - And I believe, you know, that, if there's a calling, you know that, I  believe?  

Steve - And if you don't, you're doing the right thing, like learning and growing  and through, I mean, I didn't, I didn't go to that church, thinking I'm gonna get  called. Right. So be patient, keep learning, keep growing, keep walking with  God, and God will show you the way. Right, he always does.  

Henry - I think this was important point. Confirmation confirmation. So Phoebe  has the letter of the Romans, she's carrying this to she's, she's carrying the  letter, the letter, the Roman letter to the Romans, Paul wrote it. So she's carrying it to deliver it, she herself is a diakonos minister. The word minister, there is the  word diakonos. And the minister in the church in Cenchrea. And so she's  carrying this letter. And it's fascinating that the apostle Paul writes, actually in the letter I commend to you, Phoebe, in that commending is actually something that  happened, happened in ordination, credibility, if you're called to ministry, and  people don't see that you're called the ministry, and those are the confirmation  even at Christian leaders Alliance, we have a study program at the Christian  leaders Institute. But we ask for the recommendation, three recommendations.  We want a local context for to be considered clergy. Because it's not just taking  classes. Do people see in you a calling, and would they actually follow you in  that call, right.  

Steve - So because we're called in community where, Christianity is not  individualistic sport, it's a team sport. That the spirit is one Ephesians 4 talks  about the spirit being one. If the Spirit speaks to you, he often will say the same  thing to someone else. Right. And so that's, that's like a confirmation. It's like,  things are confirmed with the witness of two people. Two people say it, and it  was probably accurate, right? So it's that same kind of thing. So maybe you feel  called, and maybe the next step is a confirmation. So humbly, it takes humility to do this. And so you know, we had to, in a way submit to that we went to  seminary, we got our degrees. But that wasn't good enough. We had to get 

confirmed by the whole staff of the seminary. But then we had to go before a  local board of local leaders in churches, to the churches that are doing and they  examined us and asked where our vision was in our heart and what our walk  was. All those things to sort of confirm that we're on the right trail. I mean, we  don't take our calling lightly right. And we don't just assume that we know best  I've taken on I guess that's part of the thing is there's a lot of Lone Ranger  prophets out there that declare that they're the Prophet, they understand the  word of God, and they're going to do it. But that's ignoring the whole idea of the  Church that Jesus is the head. Right, and we're all a part of the body. And if  we're all part of the body, we're in submission to one another. There's a certain  humility about that.  

Henry - And I think confirmation is not just a one time thing, either, I think, as you when you preach a sermon, or preached a message, if that's your calling, and  people, they don't respond. In a sense, they're confirming that maybe a little  more ministry training, you know, maybe a little more growing, even feel like  there's a healthy aspect to evaluation and to have people evaluate you. And  when they evaluate you and point out excellent things that you can do to grow.  That's not bad. That's a confirmation that they see something, and they're  helping you grow. So confirmation is not just about ordination, or clergy licensing or clergy ordination. But it's also about a process of commending in a healthy  way. Now, I wonder about how we, we were confirmed the process was so  heavy in laborious that basically, few became ministers.  

Steve - And it was sort of mostly emphasis on knowledge. Yeah, what we knew  about the Bible, doctrines and things like that. And they didn't always pursue,  you know, they didn't really ask what you're calling. We have a specific calling.  They confirmed that you're smart enough and studied enough, which is really  you're not a bad person.  

Henry - A lot of ways the minister training journey at Christian leaders Institute  and the Alliance and the college is really a journey of confirmation of what are  you interested in?  

Steve - And since the classes are free, you can explore many courses, you can  take a lot of them to see where is your interest? And listen to the Spirit as you  take these different classes because maybe the Holy Spirit is going to use one  of these mini classes to point you in a certain direction. Right.  

Henry - So I mean ministry discernment, what an enjoyable thing to think about  calling discernment and you may be called to something else. You may be  called to expand what you're doing, right? You may be called to stop something 

and start something. Who knows, right? Who knows? But it's insane journey.  And you were called and you are called? May God bless you in your calling.