Video Transcript: Interview with Pastor Greg and Collette

And we're back. Great to have you with this course on domestic tranquility. And as we look at the topic of temperament, how God has wired you, we talked about how God wires us with five temperaments. On the board behind me, you have the five sentences as we talked about, I want it my way, or I want it the fun way and why not, or the peaceful way. Even keeled always, want peace at all costs, or I want it the right way. And the way things ought to be, it's black and white, it's, you know, there's no gray in between, or I want to your way so that you love me. And that's for the person who wants to support and reinforce the rules. They don't want to make the rules, they want to follow and have the servant's heart. Those are the five temperaments as we discussed. And today, I want us to look at how this is applied. I took the liberty of inviting my team, my co-pastor in ministry, with community recovery, as well as new Community Church at the care center, and also our executive system. Cocoa Compton and Pastor Greg Chandler, and also Colette are here. And they're going to tell you their experiences based upon how God has wired them. As I screen them and brought them on to our staff. We had the opportunity and fun opportunity of doing the Arno profile of them. And they came out the same. It was quite amazing, wasn't it, guys? Absolutely. And, and just to maybe start with you, Greg.

Well, let me back up. Greg, as I described in the last video, there are three areas of temperament. First, the first area we talked about, has to do with general relationships, how we relate with people in general overall. And this first area of ourselves defines us. It defines us it as the umbrella that we're under, throughout our day, and of course, our lives. The second area has to do with decision making, work, and how we carry ourselves at work and interpersonally. And how we make those decisions, with projects, or at home with our budgets, or how to decorate the house. That second area is very different than the first. The third area, we look at is personal relationships. See, personal relationships, obviously, are very different than general relationships. I’m not, for example, going to be as intimate with somebody at Myers who I meet for the first time, as I'm going to be with my wife, right guys? So that's very different. And of course, it also applies to close family members, deep friendships, close friendships. And it will have to say, I have a close and deep friendship with my team here. Yes, we are in our work mode every day. But also, we've been able to deepen our friendship and our relationship with each other in a very special way. Thanks be to God! And I will have to say too, and I will say this, for the record, this is probably in 19 years, the best team I've had ever, as I've worked with community recovery, New Community Church, and many of the projects. So, thank you guys for an excellent experience daily, as God has blessed us and so let's get to how God's wired, both Greg and also Collet, or Coco, as we call her.

 Let's go back to the board. On the board, we have the sentences: I want it my way. I want it the fun way. And why not? We always say I wanted to relational way or one of the peaceful ways, phlegmatic and the right way the melancholy and your way supine. Greg and Collette came out in the first area in general relationships, how they initiate contact and how they received contact. They're both fun way. Relational way. Same way. Absolutely. They want to have fun all the time. They're joking half the time. They want to make a party all the time. It's party town, as we say all the time. And it's fun way, relational way. But now, how they make decisions is very different, a stark contrast. Absolutely. Both Greg and Colette, they want it the right way, and how they make decisions and how they are wired to get the details done. And that's the right way. That's how things ought to be, as the melancholy. And they're a little different in terms of degrees as far as levels, but it's the same with the two of them. And then deep personal relationships. Well, you'll see for yourselves, they're fun way with their deep relationships, they want connection. That's another important part to reemphasize, the sanguine, wants connection they want, they're energized by people. But at the same time, when it comes to decision making, and doing the project be at work. They're very task oriented. They're very deliberate, and very much about getting the details in order for 1 to 1.1 to 1.2 to 2 to 2.1, to 2.2, and so on. But when it comes to people, and relationships, bring it, they love it. And so, let's go to let's find out from their own mouth, their own experience, how this plays out in their lives. And especially as we work as a ministry team, and see, as you work in ministry, or as you are reentering society as a returning citizen, or as you are working with people in your household, as a wife, as a husband, wherever you might just think about how God has wired you. And then of course, we hope to connect with you, via our mind or other ways. So, we can help you discover how God's wired do and see how that plays out in your relationships and how you do your work. So, Greg, Collette, tell me great, we'll start with you. You were at once, at one time, a senior pastor of a fast-growing Missionary Baptist Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And how long of a tenure did that church because I know that church dissolved. And there's a whole story behind them, which is not the purpose of this interview today. However, you begin to discover something people came to you and they said, Oh, Pastor Greg, you're the guy. You need to be our senior pastor. As we plant this church, it's about what, eight years ago?

Yes, it was. Yeah. And there were some people that came together, they wanted to become a church. They wanted to do ministry. It started in my home as a men's Bible Fellowship. And that developed that lasted for about two years. And then their spouses took interest as they appreciated the growth that their husbands were making. And they decided that, hey, can we get you also to host a Bible study for the women? Then they say, why are we doing this alone? Why don't we just come together and become a church? That's how it started. Yeah, sure. Sorry, just basically oversaw the process, and based on your temperament models, because I didn't want to take on that great responsibility. So, I can offer the caveat, I'll oversee it. Because I didn't want ultimate responsibility of them following me. I want to help you because you asked for my help. But I also wanted to leave myself away.

Yes. You, as I've gotten to know you, and as we had the opportunity to confirm how God wired you, you wanted to connect people.

That's it. I wanted to connect them, but then I wanted to fade in the background. And then back, I was challenged early on, as a senior pastor just about that model, that I wanted to empower them, that they can continue on. I didn't want to be their senior pastor forever. I wanted to get them started, get a good foundation, get to where they need to be. So that they you know, they can continue on, but then I wanted out.

And that's a valid leadership model. That's a valid pattern as you have a startup, and then you have a plan of succession. And those things are leadership issues. However, what they didn't take into consideration perhaps or maybe you didn't, either at the time, or somewhere in between. You know, you're the relational guy. You are, the man said, sure. Let's get everybody together. It's a big happy family. Yes.

So, they didn't take to that part of my temperament that wants to do it the right way. Yes. Because in that case conflict, because being relational, there is still a right way that you have to approach things. Of course, as the church grows and develops, it gets so many opportunities available. And many of them wanted me to side with one group over another group about a decision, and what I'd have to do, and oftentimes that frustrated them, that allow me to pray about it in getting God's direction on it, because I want to do it the right way, which was not popular at all. They loved the relational pastor. But they did not like the right way pastor at all. And certainly, and what often happens, everybody is that a person with his temperament mix, at first, they come off relational. Everybody's included. And it's a big happy family. And he's late to the party. Greg, what is, and Colette is a right behind that when it comes to a decision or a project. Then they go into their mode of right way, details. And that can fool people. Because people are thinking, well, now wait a minute. I thought you were a relational guy, Greg, I thought you were into the party all the time. And we have a lot of fun with you. But now you want to get serious about details and having an order with things. I don't understand that. But coming full circle, what Greg has come to see, and in terms of role and how he's wired as, is that as things progressed with his church. And just to give it in a nutshell, unfortunately, there was a church split. And there are other things going on, which was the choice of other people, and places and things. And while God had other plans, and that's where God brought us into the relationship. And what happened was that I invited Greg to join our team as he was looking to dissolve the church, unfortunately, because of things that happened, and well, we all know what happens with church splits. But Greg finally started to realize that the senior pastor role just was not him. That was not his bent, not how he was meant to be, so tell me more, Greg, how, again, give me your sanguine, melancholy, sanguine, you know, fun way, relational way, right way. And then relationally. Again, when it comes to family members and those personal relationships what did you discover as a pastor, and of course, as a leader of what you do in terms of a team, and also joining our team and the new community, church, and community recovery.

And having accepted God's call to ministry, of course, you go through the process of discovering, Lord, where specifically as what specialty or area of your vinyard do you want me to grow and to develop, and when the opportunity because of the church split, where you and I, Dr. Mark met. And subsequently, through a series of events that invitation was extended. I hurried up, jumped on it, because I knew it was God's purpose for me and plan for me to continue in ministry. But as you so eloquently and accurately stated, I just didn't have an appetite for a senior pastor role. I wanted to be a support. When we came together by the providence of God, I honestly believe it's the providence of God because prior to you coming to me and I was already praying, Lord, give me some direction. Lead me guide me where you want me to be. Because I know I'm not done. You're not done with me. And so that invitation to do something very unique, I've never even imagined, hey, let's come together and let's start a multicultural church. Okay, I mean, my background, I grew up in the suburbs, you know, I've always I had multicultural experiences. That's it right into where I believe God was leading me and also what I particularly prefer because I love people. Okay, I love it. And the most wonderful thing about it is that I don't have to be the ultimate decision maker. That's what really appealed to me. I want to be involved in ministry. But I don't want to make that ultimate decision because working backward, that's what caused a lot of conflict that led to the split in the church, because I didn't like being in that role to make the ultimate decider because I knew it was going to hurt some people. And I don't like hurting people. Oh, no, you know. And so those are the tough things that will let me leave that to someone else. So, I was so glad to come along and be a part of not only community recovery, but new Community Church, like when I met Pastor Luke Vandermeer; he is like the dad figure to me, my rescuer my hero, so yes, you take the lead, I'd love to be on your team, and then working with you with community recovery, and that you are the executive director. So, you lead the way. But here's one thing isn't. You have a guy that you know, to get the work done and get it done right and get it done, that will have actual outcomes that are measurable, that you can count on. But that's not where I'm led. That's not what, if someone asked me, Mark, to this day, would you like me seeing your parents again? Oh, no. Our support, you're sure that I'm happy. And you know what's so funny if you don't mind me saying, I read a book by Terry Nance that was entitled, God's Armor. Right. And that impressed me because I thought in my background, especially coming from Baptist denomination that should be effective administrator, you had to be the senior pastor. But Terry Nance, in his book, he was a support. And he also wrote books, in his day with no dad, never call me to senior pastor, but I will be the greatest support for the senior pastor, I will be his armor bearer. I can do that. And I would like to do that. So, when the heat comes on, you know, I will get the fan.

And this gentleman has my back, I really, really thank God for him. And also, for you Collette, to thank you. And because you both have this temperament pattern of relational, supportive, also, Team mindedness. That's very, very consistent. Because we have to, as we look at teams, as we look at, and not just in work, but also in life. It's, God has put us in the business fortress. First Corinthians 12 talks about the body of Christ. And we look at that often, how the hand needs the foot, the head needs the eye, and so forth, and the ears need the eye, the ear cannot see, the ear can hear. And you all have discovered to how God has given you strengths that correlate with how he's wired you. And as you step into those strengths, as you maximize those strengths, as you get into that, that wiring, there's fulfilment. There's also peace. There's also a minimization, if you will, of depression, anxiety, and these things, and these are the practical applications. And I think you both, and it was really special because we know each other well, and we're able to, I think, project and also communicate accurately how this plays out. So, Greg, as you lead with me, but also, yes, as a decision maker. And as I mentioned in the video, before, when I explain temperament, I'm a choleric to begin with, a choleric they usually make decisions quickly, and are usually accurate and correct. All the time. I'm not perfect. No choleric is. Nobody is, however, as God has given the cleric temperament to two people, as the dominant pattern. Decision making, as Greg was pointing out, really needs to be with that executive director, that senior pastor, that senior leader, to make those decisions and to make those tough calls, but also to make the calls in general, where I need to make the call, I will make the call and I understand that some people may not like it, but that's where you move forward. And God takes care of the rest. And Greg is there to kind of be in there. But let's say for example, you've had those people who don't like the decision. But you're able to smooth things through the first aid kit. Yes, you do. All the injuries that anyone would have suffered, whether direct or indirect, there is the support vehicle, to comfort and consultant to help them, to segue forward. Regardless of, and also to see, the larger vision. Oftentimes, when the decision is made, they don't understand that this is within the framework of vision. In the choleric, as you know, this better Mark, and I just know observing you and Pastor Luke, that what is driving you is this vision, God has given you a burden, it must be fulfilled. And so, then we come along as a support, to try to bring the people recognize the talent plug in the right people, but it always has to be vision centric. Okay, we cannot deviate. And that's why we support, because we know this is not personal. Its vision, because we know what the fulfillment of the vision, what they're after individually, will be collectively shared with all, all will be blessed. Together, right.

So Collette, turn to your experience. And we learned from Greg's experience, and also from your experience, God put you in a very unique place with a very influential businessman in Grand Rapids, Michigan, for many, many years. And prior to that, as you were growing up, and now that you know how you're wired in different areas of relationships, and work and also personal relationships, you know, that the relational, right way, relational. Tell us how you're from what you're seeing, maybe a story or two from when you were growing up. And then also working with Mr. Gruters, the businessman of how you learned, typically how that support, as Greg was saying, played out in those different roles and versus as a daughter, and of course, as a as a sister, but also then as the executive assistant, to a large company for many, many years.

Well, first of all, I love working with both of you, you both are absolutely fabulous. And I'm very, very, very blessed. God has blessed me with both of you. And we do have a dynamic team. Growing up, I had an engineer father, and an accountant mother. And so, I have a nerdy side to me, as I call it. And that is the melancholy, the right way. And the other way, the fun way, is that comes out a lot as well. So, my mother was a lot of fun. My dad was military. So, I have a little bit of that in my background. And so, the blending those two together has made me what I am today when I was hired for the position accountant at this firm, for a developer, very prominent family in Grand Rapids. Basically, I was hired as an accountant. When I got my foot in the door. The owner had asked me within a couple of months, he said, I love you, I love your temperament. I love your fun way. And I would like to not only to be the executive assistant to myself, but a personal assistant to the family. While I had not had any bad experience in my life through a college and so what happened is, it was basically I started from ground zero and with the different temperaments that I have it blended into a wonderful 20-year position with this family. And absolutely a lot of fun, lots of crazy stories. But Dr Merrick said, I like it the fun way. But when it comes to the work setting, it does have to be that right way and it is very confusing for people, especially within the company that thinks oh, Coco or Collette is so much fun and I want to be your best friend. While at work. I am focused on that goal. And it is very confusing to that. But with relationships, I love and I love deeply. I love you; I love pastor Greg; I love our whole team that we work with, but I love them deeply. And I expect that in return, I expect the same thing that I give out to be returned to me. I want you to work as hard. And Greg to work as hard we all have to work together in the same manner. So, it's an interesting blend, but learning, you know, my different attributes that I have, it makes it successful, you know, in the end, basically. Sure. Now, there are a couple things about the sanguine melancholy. And first thing is, as we know, and as I described in the previous video, sanguine, relational people, they need to talk in order to think. So, coming on that a minute, either one of you sort of started to talk or to think out loud, I am divorced. So, I talked to my dog. No, but I do in Doctor Mark had mentioned, I feel that I am energized by talking. And I think most of the staff members at the church, when they see me come in, they want to jump in their office, because I always have something to say. But I do I love everyone deeply. And I and I do want to talk and I always feel that I have something to say but maybe they don't.

And that's because to the sanguine is the extrovert is saying what draws energy from people and see in this course, too, and I just want to weave this in everybody, is that as we look at restorative justice, as we look at domestic tranquility, not domestic violence, one of the important things to understand as we get to know ourselves as we remain the image of God, Genesis 1:26 We also identify how that helps people who are coming back into society from prison or jail, or from rehabilitation centers, because of addiction and other things,  we all need help, we all need restoration, this is part of it. And if we come to know who we are, in the most excellent way, as we learn about the wiring God's put in us and our tendencies, and in our needs and our wants, this helps, helps us to restore each one of us individually, and also collectively as a community in a more peaceful state, to bring a peaceful or tranquil society that can, that wants to, or God wants, and to really promote civility and love and grace, all the Jesus talk, as those a big part are too, so this is where the rubber meets the road. Because as people are wired differently, they have different needs, and they express it differently. And different wants, they're expressed differently based upon the mix. So great. Come back to you talking or to think and people talk about that too. As far as the whole extraversion and anything, energy from people. 

I really struggle with being self-conscious in my prayer life with the Lord because, since I love people, love to interact with people, I draw energy, as you describe so accurately, from people. But then this right way of mine, my talking aloud, and sometimes interacting with people is to get feedback, so I can do it the right way. I often time, and I don't mean to: That's why I brought me in prayer, because God, am I using them, is because since I want to do it the right way, and I have the personality that loves to connect with people, am I just trying to get feedback from him by talking out loud or engaging them so I can do it the right way? Or am I genuinely appreciating their relationship? You know, I had to pray about that. Because, again, my ultimate goal is not to hurt anyone. But yet, I want to do whatever task it is I have, to do it right. And so, I definitely need their feedback. So, I would often times come up with different subjects or whatever I'm working on, and throw it out there just so I can get feedback from them, when they don't know, unwittingly, I'm trying to gain enough information that will help me conclude that this is the best approach, certainly.

But of course, to let's just look at the fun way, and generally when it's fun, and also if it's not fun, then why not? You know, and it needs to be fun and why not? But also, too, where you're also slapping ideas on the wall and you don't even know where that's headed for, right at the moment. And you really don't care about the details in that mode, but then you flip to the melancholy part of you and it's details, details, details. Yeah. And so very intensely, correct. Okay.

That's why some people will call you talking to you, and I'm talking aloud. Because I'm trying to work it out. That's what I used to really put a strain in my personal relationship with the Lord: you know, why don't you just tell me what you want, you know, plain and simple, right? It's certainly so you take all the guesswork out of it, but then I come to find out, as I mature in Christ, is that this is what brings me in close proximity and keeps me in close proximity with him that I may be able to hear His voice, and quiet some of my "crazy."

But I've got that balance in my life that actually gets enveloped in one word: Wait. I have found waiting on the Lord, a lot of things will come to me the right people, the right approach, a lot of things just apply it my spirit, just to just wait in that way. And I'm describing that Mark, my brother, whom I love, is an active way. Not a passive waiting, where someone would sit there bouncing their leg up and down, you know the things that we do. We display waiting when we really don't want to wait. But this is an act of waiting that is filled with expectation and anticipation. I know that the guy who called me to it is going to see me through it.

Certainly. One last thing. As we look at the three areas, we also look at blending. And Greg and Coco talked about how their whole blend and how the sanguine for example, plays off the melancholy and the melancholy plays off the sanguine. In other words, the fun way plays off the right way. And how people get confused, and then they learn, and so on, but also when they blend. That's also important too. And, guys, I've talked to you about this as well, and on the job as we go and as a coach you and we coach each other but as I often tell you, you want things to be wonderful with people in terms of what you initiate, and also what you expect. I like that word expect, expectation, where you expect back to you. But then right behind it is right way. And when that blends in, was a fun way. You often, and things don't come together at certain times, where it's wonderful that we're okay. And it's right. Where things are in the right place, correct and not wrong. You often will feel insecure and also feel angry. And I feel like I shouldn't say and I'm angry. You should say I am hurt. Now, friends as you watch the other video, this may remind you of another temperament pattern, the supine and I explained in that segment, how to supine is the sanguine and the melancholy, the fun way and the right way as one. Now with Greg and Collette, they deal with moments, certain times, not all the time, but certain times when those two, the sanguine & melancholy, when they blend, then you have those moments where you tend to spiral a bit and you feel that insecurity, and you feel it and anxiety. Yeah. And where you need to learn where to say no, I'm angry, because to get the anger out, because if you don't get the anger out, as we looked at last video, it can turn into depression. And therefore, people can't tell what's really going on underneath, what's going on in you. In addition, it's that whole thing of you expecting other people, like myself, to read your mind. And I can't read your mind. But you're thinking, Oh, he should just know what I need, you know, he knows. So, we learn this with each other too. So have you had those moments with other people that not just for myself, as we worked.

Definitely, in the past, I have, and to counseling I've learned to express that. Because being the nice person the fun way, I didn't want to hurt your feelings by telling you a, b and c. So therefore, I would hold it in. And then I was depressed. So, I've learned, over the years, to, when this happened, that kind of hurt my feelings. So definitely verbally expressing or emailing or texting. You know, nowadays, so I've learned that over the years. So those different little temperaments I've really learned to control, certainly.

And we're quite as reflecting on his health, through counseling, and through other coaching, she's been able to integrate and also build the strategies and build the tools and use the tools spiritually, psychologically, mentally, and socially to help her stay balanced enough. Of course, we all need Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, the way God has made you, he's helped you to balance it out. And Greg, how about you?

I've had to find purpose of hobbies, okay, because when it comes to me, in moments of anger, I will turn to express it through my hobbies. You know, I'm kind of tech savvy. So, I will take on a project that I know is going to be quite comprehensive and involved. And I have the temperament, if I start a project, I don't leave it until I complete it. So, through fixing or working or changing or whatever project that I'm on, I get all my emotions out through that. And then the wonderful thing of the success of the finished product or project, especially when we're trying to fix the computer, especially I go in angry from what I've had, and then is just like, oh, it's a challenge. So, I'm meeting the challenges and finding different ways to get it done. If I don't do that, Mark, then I have a tendency of withdrawing. And I would withdraw out, get quiet. Because in my headspace, and believing that I caused some injury to someone, did something wrong. And I should basically take myself out of the picture.

Certainly, and that's that self, a part of that affect, call it the supine effect. Not all the time, because predominantly, you're saying once then the melancholy force is strong and you're in your work mode. And then of course sanguine in your deep relationships. But when you have those supine moments, yeah, that's where you want to withdraw because then you if you don't, you think to yourself, I'm not worth dirt. But the truth is, you are fearfully and wonderfully made by God. Thanks, guys. It has been amazing to just now unpack but also present it to the world. What, in fact, God has done in your lives and how God's wired you and help us learn how the wiring the temperaments play out in every part of life. So, thanks for watching and look forward to the next video as we come together again. God bless.