Video Transcript: Lesson 8 Traditionalism & Preference-Driven
Welcome back to Christian leaders Institute. I'm John Kenny. And today we're
going to be diving into some more underlying causes that bringing about decline
in churches and ministries and our previous lecture, we just wrapped up and we
were talking about how the love of God can grow cold. And really, how that can
just really dry up everything in a very lifeless experience. So, today, in this
lecture, we're gonna hit two more, and boy are these common? Well, a lot of
churches are gonna, a lot of people, you're gonna watch this and say, Boy is this
us. And so, let's pray. And let's jump right into this and see what God has for us
today. Lord Jesus, we turn to you for wisdom and direction. Lord, I pray also for
a humble spirit. That as we hear these words, Lord, you might identify in us
places in our own hearts where we have succumb to these things. And, Lord,
help us to see where they are in and willing to Lord, to do something about it.
We pray this in Your name, amen. Okay, so let's talk about a couple more
underlying causes for church decline. The first one we'll talk about today is,
traditionalism. I don't know if you've ever seen the stories on the news where
there will be like a massive hurricane coming into like Florida, or something, you
know, a gulf coast area or along the Carolina coast, and somebody like has a
house, right on the beach, or, you know, right in right where the hurricane is
gonna hit. And everybody is forced to evacuate because of this pending, you
know, huge storm is gonna wipe everything out. And there's always like a few
people who refuse to move, they refuse to get out of the way. And it doesn't
matter that there's a, you know, 40 foot wall of water, and 150 mile an hour
winds coming, they refuse to move, and they just stay there. And unfortunately,
sadly, some of those people, they they don't survive, because they were just,
they were unwilling to move from where they were. There's a similar thing that
happened back in 1980, when there was a huge volcanic eruption here in the
United States, mountain St. Helens, and there was a person who lived not far
from the base of the mountains, and was told to get out, you have to move out,
the volcano's gonna blow and the person just absolutely just refused to move.
And sure enough, Mount St. Helens blew, and the person was killed really
needlessly. All they had to do was get in their car and drive away to a safe spot.
Well, the reason I share that those illustrations is because today when we talk
about traditionalism, we're talking about churches that refuse to move churches
that are like, so dug in, it's like, I don't care what's happening. I don't care, like
we are not doing anything we are here to, you know, stay input. Now, the
problem with that, now, certainly if we have those, that steadfastness in our in
our beliefs about who God is, and then the gospel and the truth of God's word,
like that's a very good thing. But when it's about how we do church, it's deadly.
I'm going to be referencing throughout this lecture and a wonderful book done
by Thom Rainer called autopsy of a deceased church and, and he, in this book,
he outlines a number of things that are common underlying causes. And for for
Thom Rainer, who studies this, you know, night and day for him. Traditional
traditionalism is the number one killer of churches, and you would define
traditionalism is this, a church that is firmly committed to living in the past. Now,
I'm not talking about tradition, like a traditional style of worship or traditions at a
church has but a mentality that really wants to kind of go back in the past, and
their solution is is to, is to return to the way something was that all the answers
can be found in the past. So, in my church, as you know, I've struggled greatly
my first few years there and the church was half the size less than half the size,
it was, you know, just 10 years previous, but it was even far smaller than that,
and where the church was in the 1950s, and the 1960s, and even early 1970s.
And so I had an older member of the congregation who had been there during
the 50s, and 60s. And they came up to me, and they knew that I was trying to do
revitalization, and they knew I was trying to, you know, bring some things back.
And they were just agreeing with the way I was going about it. And they said, I
know just what we need to do. And at that point, I was like, I'll take any
suggestion, any idea. And the person said, what we need to do is, say the
Apostle's Creed every Sunday during worship, because back in the 1950s, and
60s, when this place was kind of standing room only, we used to say the
Apostle's Creed, every Sunday in worship. And so in that person's mind, that
was like the thing. And if we would just do that, if we would just say the Apostle's
Creed, you know, we'd have to, you know, make the doors wider because
everybody would be be piling in. Now, obviously, I had to remind them that
things were not that easy. If they were every church in the world would be saying
the Apostle's Creed, each week in worship, and that I tried to get them to think
that perhaps that wasn't the reason perhaps there were other things at play at
why the Apostle's Creed in of itself was not the reason. It'd be like saying, you
know, when the colonies won the Revolutionary War, they used muskets, and
they had cannons drawn around by horses. So the next time the United States
gets in a war, we should use muskets, and we should get horses and to drag
around cannons. Things that fit, you know, tiny, tiny things change, things
change. And it's not as simple as let's kind of make a time machine. Let's travel
back and reclaim something it doesn't work that way. In his book, The autopsy of
a deceased church, Thom Rainer writes about this widespread devastating
impact that people have about traditionalism of like we are staying put in the
past. And what we see here, let me just read this quote for you. The most
pervasive and common thread of our autopsies was that the deceased churches
lived for a long time with the past, as a hero, they held on more tightly with each
progressive year, they often clung to things of the past, with desperation, and
fear. And when any internal or external force tried to change the past, they
responded with anger and resolution, we will die before we change. And they
did. So, traditionalism this holding on to the past really, it's motivated by
desperation, fear and anger. And I really, I think, Rainer hits the nail on the head
with that is my experience in my church and in other churches, that it's fear, we
have to go back into this cocoon and, and we're angry at the world and angry at
anybody who's trying to make any changes. Now, ironically, in an attempt to
hang on what once gave life to the church, the congregation engages in a
process that leads to inevitable death by trying to cling to the thing that once
gave life, you are almost guaranteeing a certain death. You know, everything
that we do in churches now, no matter how old the tradition is, no matter how old
the practices. It was once a new thing. You know, like an organ was once a new
thing and was actually highly contested. Because it was they thought it was too
worldly, saying, you know, Creed's or starting a ministry. You know, some
ministry that's been around forever. That's just like, hanging on by a by a thread.
You know, one time that got started and was vibrant. But by trying to hang on to
these things, you know, we're really ensuring that we will never move into the
future. So the real problem here is with traditionalism is an unwillingness, this is
a stubborn unwillingness to address current issues and make necessary
changes. And that's so important because the church you have now is not the
church that was on his mind that was there in 1965. Our town is different, our
country is different. The members of our church are different. We have a few
people leftover, but we have different gifts. We have different abilities, we have
different needs. We're a different size, we have different resources, and but
trying to go back and say, but this is what we need to be. We can say, in all
honesty. We're not that church anymore. We're not that people anymore. We
don't live in that world anymore. So the difficulty here is people are just so
resistant to making different kinds of changes. So a few years ago, somebody
asked me, a fellow pastor asked me to write my testimony about going through
revitalization. And what we had done and the the impact it had, because he was
trying to get his church to go through a somewhat similar process. So I wrote it,
it was just like a page and a half or two pages. And I gave it to him. And a week
later, he sent it back. And he said, Would you be willing to rewrite it? And I
thought, Well, like I was like, I'm not sure like, what what do you mean, what do
you want me to rewrite it? And he said that within the page and a half, maybe
like five or six times, I had used the word change. And that word in itself, he
said, nobody's going to the first time you say the word change, he's like, My
people are gonna stop listening. So he's like, is there a way you can rewrite all
of this, and not use the word change. So I ended up having to, like, get out of
thesaurus. And try to figure out other ways that I could say change without
saying the word change. I mean, that's how that is how stuck in the mud stuck in
the past this church was that, even if they read the word change, it was like, you
know, the wall went up. And we don't want to have anything to do with this. So
let me say like, I'm not the kind of person who likes change just for the sake of
change. So where I live, the big store in town where we do all our grocery
shopping, and pharmacy and pickup odds and ends and stuff like that the big
store in our town, they're doing this massive remodel. And everything in the
store is like now like in a different area, and it's all switched around. And I've
been in that store probably four or five times a week for the last 12 years. I knew
where absolutely everything in that store is, well, the last month or so when I go
in, I don't know where anything is. And I'm just wandering around in circles. And
I get frustrated, because it's like, I could have been in and out of here in five
minutes. Now it's taking me 20 minutes, because I can't find anything. And it's
like, why did they have to change? You know, it was perfectly good the way it
was for the last 12 years. And I'm sure that the church or the store, they had
their reasons, maybe they could get more items on the shelves, or maybe they
just wanted the store to look nicer, or it was a faster way that they could stock
things and need less labor. And I don't know, I'm sure they had their reasons,
because they're spending an awful lot of money on making these changes. So
like I get it like I don't like change just for the sake of change. But But change is
necessary. It is I mean, this is an old expression, the only thing that is constant
is change. And the world is changing the way that people think is changing. We
live in a digital age. We live in a world where images are our primary way of
communicating rather than even words. The way people feel is changing. The
way we communicate is changing. The things we value are changing. The way
we spend our time is changing the way we spend our money is changing. We
have to be aware of all of these things and, and what worked yesterday or a
decade ago or 30 years ago, is not necessarily going to work today. In our
church, we're in a downtown location. And for many, many years, I mean, like 40
or 50 years, our church had a community, Good Friday service. And there was a
couple of Catholic churches in town that would have a Good Friday service, but
our church, we were the only Protestant church in town that had a Good Friday
service. Excuse me. So what we did was invite different pastors and different
singers and soloists to come to the Good Friday service. And in our downtown
area, all the businesses shut down for an hour over lunch, so all the business
people and their employees could come to the church service. Well, as time
went on, more and more Protestant churches began to have their own services.
And so involvement became less than less. And as time went on, the
community, the downtown businesses, they stayed open. And they didn't close
down for an hour or an hour and a half, on Good Friday. And this went on and on
and on. until like, every church in town had a Good Friday service. And we could
just, we could never find any other pastors to help out. We couldn't find any
other singers or worship people to help out with it. Because they were already
busy with their own stuff. And then people were less and less inclined to come
because they couldn't get off of work and all that stuff. Because was in the
middle of that it was at noon, it was over lunch. And then finally, we got to a point
where like, we just stopped doing it, because things had changed so much. So
hardly anybody was coming. And we, we couldn't get it. What, what, and when it
started back in the 50s, or 60s, it was great. There was a need for it. Everybody
was involved, and it fit perfectly. Well. By the time we got to 2015, the world had
changed so much, and so did the churches that in some ways, it kind of became
like irrelevant to try to do a community kind of service like that. And we just
decided we're not going to do this anymore. We'll try something else that is
going to fit into what, what the world and where our church is right now. Instead
of saying, No, this is the way we've done it, we have to keep doing it. We can't
pull the plug on this, because we've been doing this for for so long. But let's
think about this. What does the Scripture say? What does scripture say?
Hebrews 11:13-16. This is the writer of Hebrews talking about the people of the
Old Testament, and how they went and they lived by faith kind of always looking
ahead to like the promises of God. They themselves didn't receive it. But they
were always had that in mind. And the writer of Hebrews says, All these people
were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things
promised, they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting
that they were foreigners and strangers on Earth. People who say such things,
show that they are looking for a country of their own. If they'd been thinking of
the country they had left, they would have had an opportunity to return. Instead,
they were longing for a better country, a heavenly one. Therefore, God is not
ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them. So what
does this passage in Hebrews teach? If you're a pastor or an elder or deacon in
your church, I would share this with some people. This is, I think, just a
foundational passage for us. It says that the humans of our faiths have always
been people who look forward. They were they were looking forward to the
promise of God, what God was going to do, they were always in that position of
leaning into what was what was coming next. And it said, you know, they were
not thinking about the country that they had been in. They were thinking about
the country, God was calling them to heroes of the faith look forward. I mean, we
can even think of the Israelites when they got out of Egypt. You know, there
were a couple people who said, Oh, God Got this promised land, let's go. Let's
embrace it, let's move into that. But a lot of the people were saying, let's go back
to Egypt, even though it was the land of slavery, they were like, Whoa, let's go
back there. We know that we're, we're familiar with that we're, we're comfortable
with that. And people like, No, God has called you to something so much better.
We got to just keep going, you know, let's forge a new path. Let's, let's just
follow God wherever He leads. Heroes of faith look forward. Now, does that
mean we throw out the past? We disregard it, we, we nullify it, we minimize it?
No, of course not. That's why earlier on I had you do or I encourage you to do
study of your history, to learn about it to, to find things to celebrate, to point
towards, that you can share and you can learn from it. My friend, Pastor mentor,
Harry Reeder, who I've mentioned already, in these lectures, has just a
wonderful quote from his embassy of flame ministry. And Harry says, we learn
from the past, in order to live in the present, so that the church can change the
future. I love that, quote, I'm gonna say it again, it's so good. It's worth saying
twice. Harry says, learn from the past, in order to live in the present, so that the
church can change the future. I really, really embrace this, this teaching, we
don't want to forget that what's done before us. And we don't want to pretend
like we're the first Christians who've ever walked around here. And the churches
have been waiting for our generation to show to do something. Now we have
this glorious, rich history that through that precedes us. And that really helps us
to understand how to do ministry today and go into the, into the future. So my
church is nearly 170 years old. And what we do is we look at key strategic parts
in the history of our church, where they went out on faith and they did something
new. Well, that new thing they did is now like 100 years old, but the thinking
behind it, the faith behind it that's the thing that we want to grab onto, because
100 years ago, they were leading into the future. And in the same way, that's
really what we need to be not necessarily follow exactly the thing they did, but
but the heart behind it, the trust and the faith in the Lord that went into that
decision. And not just get stuck on the form of what it particularly was. Okay, so,
traditionalism, man is that a big one that is huge. And really, that is a sin that
needs to get deep roots, and we have got to deal with that and just head on, I
don't know any other way. I don't think we dance around traditionalism. Now the
next one we talked about, again, the love of God going cold, we talked about
traditionalism. Now the next one is a kind of a close cousin to traditionalism. And
it is called preference driven. And what I want to do is just kind of define that for
you and define the difference between personal preferences and biblical
absolutes. And this is a distinction that was taught to me by a wonderful pastor,
Bob Bouwer, who is in Indiana, at Faith Reformed Church. And he led his church
through a tremendous revitalization really a miraculous kind of turnaround. And
he has a book called U turn. That's excellent. And one of the chapters in it. Bob
and his co author, Kevin Harney. Talk about personal preferences and biblical
absolutes. And personal preference is something that you like it, just as it
describes, it's something you prefer something you want something that you
desire. And the biblical absolute is something that the Bible teaches like, This is
it. There's no other way. And so Bob talks a lot about that as you're negotiating
this process of revitalization with your church and with your leaders to really
distinguish between what is it that we have that's a personal preference and
what is a biblical absolute. For example, time of worship. Maybe your church
has met forever at 9am And we now live in a day in an age where people are
saying, you know, people like to sleep in later. And I think maybe we should
move our church back to 10 or 10:30. Because that might be something that
works better for for people outside the church. Okay. Does the Bible say what
time church should be on Sunday morning? No. And so, if people are like, no,
it's nine o'clock, it's always been nine o'clock, we're gonna stick to nine o'clock, I
like nine o'clock because I can go to church and I can still, you know, tee off by
noon or something like that. That's personal preference. So somebody's really
pushing for that. Another would be style of music. Man, is this been ever an
issue in the church, especially in the American church, between, you know,
more traditional hymn, organ led versus praise bands and more modern kinds of
music? Does the Bible have a clear word on that? An absolute word on this is
the way to worship? What kind of music? No, it doesn't. It really doesn't. I mean,
I've joked around with some people in our church, you know that. You can look
up in your concordance, the word drum, or you can look up the word organ. And
I'll tell you one of those two words, is in the Bible. And one isn't, guess which
one is not in the Bible? Yep, you got it, organ. That's not in the Bible. So when
people say, Well, this is really the only way to worship or this is the right way to
worship. Is that a personal preference? Or is that a biblical absolute? that's
totally a personal preference. What is this biblical absolute? Well, that we
worship the Lord Jesus Christ in spirit, and in truth, right, and that our worship is
guided by the work of Christ on the cross, His death, His resurrection, His
ascension, his reign in heaven, his return. Those are the kinds of things that
guide and direct our worship, and we do it with sincere glad hearts. Right? So
personal preference, biblical absolutes. Another one, I'll say, and these are kind
of I'm giving you just worship examples. But it certainly goes beyond that would
be, what is acceptable dress to come to church in? Is it a coat and tie? Is it a
suit? Is it flip flops and sandals and a T shirt? And what about the people up
front? What about the people in the pews? Should the pastor wear a robe or
not? And these are all personal preferences. The Bible doesn't say that you
have to wear a coat and a tie, to worship. But it also doesn't say you have to be
super casual, either. These are just all personal preferences. When it comes to
worship, as I just said, like, the Bible is far more concerned with the state of the
heart than all these outward things. And all these outward things. If it's a
personal preference, like it's got to be negotiable, right? I mean, because if I'm
in a church of 100 people, well, I have my personal preference. Well, that means
there's 99 others, right? I mean, why do I get my way? You know, why is my
does my opinion count more than anybody else's? And why does my opinion,
you know, what value to my preferences even has, in the end? How does that
even have anything to do with the work of the Kingdom of God? It's something
that I like. But what right do I have to now impose that on everybody else? And
say, and this is the way it needs to be. This is how it has to be done. So as you
think about what are the things that are going on in your church, either things
that are divisive, or things that you see as holding you back? I think it's important
to sit down with a group of people and to say, are the issues we wrestle with are
these personal preferences? And are they biblical absolutes, you know, to really
kind of your Bob tells a story that they got a big board, and they wrote down on
one side, personal preferences on the other biblical absolutes. And then they
said, list all the things that people are troubled by. And they did. And every single
one of them there was like, 20, or something. Every single one of them was a
personal preference. And he said, that just really changed everybody's heart
when they saw gosh, we're not even wrestling, or are fighting against anything
biblical. Like it's all about just what we want. And it was just kind of a time of
repentance and humbling for that church and God did great things through that.
So good question is, is this a personal preference? I'm clinging to or the church
is clinging to? Or is this a biblical absolute, and I'm not just putting the finger on
the congregation of the people around you. I mean, Pastor, elder deacons
ministry leader, is the church built around your personal preferences are
perhaps it's your personal preferences that needs to be dealt with. Why this is
important. Jesus says this and speaking to the Pharisees, this is Mark 7:8, tells
them you have let go of the commands of God, and are holding on to the
traditions of men. See, they're holding on to their traditionalism, and they're
holding on to their preferences again, traditionalism and preference driven are
very, very close. So Jesus says, You've left all the commands of God and you're
holding on to instead of the commands of God, you let go of the commands of
God. And now you're you're clinging to you're holding on to the traditions of men.
Here's the problem, preferences have become idols. Idols, these become idols
because we have, we have let go of the things of God in order to embrace the
things of Man, that sounds exactly like idol worship. And here's the problem is
now Christ is no longer the comfort of my soul. Christ is no longer the object of
my worship. But what is my predictable routines, my preferences, the things that
I like, those are the things that make me happy. Those are the things that matter,
most. I had an experience a few years ago, in our church that really highlighted
this and in our sanctuary off to the side, we have an American flag, and it had
gotten moved for another event, and that we use it in another room or
something, and it hadn't gotten moved back into the sanctuary. And when the
following week, we had a little card that was put in our offering, and somebody
said, they were so upset, where was the American flag today? And they said, I
couldn't worship today, because there was no American flag in here. Okay, is
that is preference driven? And it's like, if I can't worship if the flag isn't in here,
well, what's really the most important thing? Is that Christ or is the flag. for them.
It's the flag. I mean, it's, it's crazy. I mean, all these things and kind of get in the
way of, and then we wonder why when the people in churches or feel this way,
we say, Boy, I wonder why we're in decline? Well, they love the flag more than
they love Jesus. The other thing we have to not only do they become idols,
preferences, always exclamation point, underlined, boldface, always,
preferences will always drift towards an inward focus. My preferences will
always address the needs of me and my family. First, what I like what I want,
what I need is going to take precedence over everything else. And we just have
to be honest, like I think we're really, really hitting some, some key things that
are, are really slowing the church down. I mean, I'm passionate about this, you
can I think you can hear it in my voice is the foolishness of this. And an honor is
just like the frustration like how did we get to this place where all these other
things became more important than the Lord. Now when talking about
traditionalism, and preference, preference driven and all this kind of stuff, please
hear this, and I don't want you to hear something. I'm not saying listen, I am not
saying get rid of everything. I am not saying that. I am not saying pander to the
culture, to do whatever it takes. You know, I'm not saying to create a consumer
kind of culture in your church. Because you'll be no better off than you are now. I
mean, you're just going to exchange one preference driven culture for a another
preference driven culture. All you're doing is changing the preferences, but
you're not really changing anything else. And that's obviously a waste of time.
And I'm certainly not saying do whatever you need to do to drive the numbers
up. There is nothing even close to scripture that says anything even remotely
like that. All right. What I am saying though, is that you must be willing, as
leaders, and then the church to lay down some sacred cows, on the altar of
sacrifice, because those sacred cows could very well be inhibiting what the Lord
is calling you to do. And those sacred cows have become your idols, they have
become your Golden Calves. And until those are dealt with, I don't have much
hope for you or me or anyone else, seeking revitalization. And that is why I know
we're spending a ton of time we're, after the lecture after this will have already
spent the first quarter of this class and we're still on the underlying causes and
diagnosing and assessments and figuring things out. Because you have to get
this right, you have to figure out what is going on. And you have to, as a leader,
help the people in your ministry context, understand it as well and to embrace it,
and to own it. And then to, you know, because until then they're never going to
do anything about it. It's just going to be you know, lip service or kind of passive
non compliance like, well, you can do that I'll shake my head, but I'm not gonna
do it, you can do it. But, you know, we want to get beyond that. So when we talk
about traditionalism, and preference driven churches, there really is. Our key
word for us here in Scripture, and it's just the most fundamental character of the
church is that it belongs to Jesus Christ, exclusively, the church belongs to
Jesus Christ. And I've had to, at times have more direct conversations with
people about this. Think about Jesus Christ, he purchased the church with his
blood, he gave his life for it, he is the Bridegroom of it. He is the Lord over it, he
rules over it. He is the head of it, he empowers it with His Holy Spirit, He gives it
its mission, he is the one who is bringing it to glory. You and I, and everybody
else. We do not have one share in the ownership of the Church of Jesus Christ.
He is the exclusive ruler, head of the church, we, together we are all beggars,
saved by His loving grace. And we have been brought now into His kingdom, to
love him to serve him to enjoy him. Right. But when we hold on to personal
preferences, all of a sudden this kingdom that we've been brought into by grace,
we start to make it about ourselves. It's being like being invited to a birthday
party. Okay, and wondering why this other person is getting all the presents, and
you're not? How ridiculous about it, because it's not your party. It's, we're
honoring, we're celebrating this other person, you know, there's been a few
times. With different song choices, people would prefer one thing or another that
we are not doing enough of. And my response has been, this is when we start
singing about you we'll let you pick the songs. I mean, I mean, I say that jokingly
and you know, kind of what a laugh but I think they get the point. We're not
singing about you. We're not worshiping you. We're not here to you know, we
serve you in brotherly love, but I serve you because primarily, I'm serving Jesus
Christ first and foremost as my Lord and Savior. And it's not about us. It just
isn't. And when we make that mistake with traditionalism and personal
preference, we find ourselves just handcuffed to the past, handcuffed to idols
and and we wonder why we're in decline. So I think it's self evident. Let me pray
for you. This very direct, tough message I think for some of us to hear, but boy is
it needed. So let me pray for you. Lord, thank You for my brothers and sisters
watching this, who are in very difficult places, Lord, and they they are in places
Lord where traditionalism and preferences are just have such a stronghold. God
I pray that you would give them wisdom, how to lead their people through that
God I pray that you would break those strongholds. Lord, that your love would
triumph over all those things. God give us a heart for each other. Give us a heart
for the world that does not know you. And let us be willing to bend, to be flexible,
to serve to go, Lord, wherever it is you lead us in ministry, Lord, we just praise
your name for your goodness and Your kindness. Amen. All right, well, we've got
one more underlying cause we're going to address and I can't wait to dive into
that with you. So come back, and we'll get right into that.