Welcome Back: The Five-Step Ministry Coaching Conversation

Welcome back. Now, we will discuss the five-step ministry coaching conversation. So, it's when we might have, from hello to Amen, a sort of intentionality behind it, but this is now dealing specifically with what you say—how you gain confidence and competence in holding these conversations.

First, let's start with an overview. Right here—the overview:

• Learn the five foundational steps of a coaching session.

• Align your coaching with Spirit-led transformation.

That's the semi-directive type of approach—to practice intentional biblical conversations. That’s where you're inviting God into these particular conversations.

🔁 Why a Five-Step Model?

Oh, here we go to the word "model" again. Why a five-step model?

Steve: Simplicity brings confidence and consistency.

That's a good point. Okay, stop there before we move on. Brings confidence and consistency. You know, that is an excellent point, because when I remember as a young minister, sometimes, I'd get on a roll and understand how to do it, but then I'd forget three things.

But when you have a model, or a five-step model, you're saying, "this base... this base..."

I think too, you know, that's the way sports are. This is how the sport goes: we do this. And here are the rules. We know what to work on. We know what's next. Everyone else does too. And so as a team, we can all be on this together.

The problem—for instance, at least I know for my ministry and probably some of yours too—is that we were pretty good at adapting and going solo, making up the game as we went. Yeah, that's...

And because we could do that, we didn't rely on the rules and the laws, and then every time it was a new adventure. And that fits our personality somewhat. But then, when we try to help other people do the same thing? Well, they can't.

They're not me. They're not you. They're thinking, "I need... I need the steps. I need to know. I don't... I don't have confidence." Right?

You had so many experiences. You could do it this way, that way, or the next way—or I give the backflip, this way.

Yes. I could hit a golf ball that way, yeah. And again, it's... and you can recover from all your mistakes, right? It wasn't the best opener, nor was it the best start, but I'm realizing that now. So I make up for it with this thing.

And, you know, I have all these little plays to make up for my hard way. It's kind of like the golf swing: there's the right way, or there's a wrong way, and then you have to make mid-corrections halfway through.

And if you're a good athlete, you can do that, right? But most people need to know: what's the easiest and best way to do this? Why don't we do that instead of making it up every time?

And so what a model does is:

• It keeps focus clear

• It builds trust over time

• It follows the natural journey of the soul

🧭 Step 1: “Where Are You Now?”

So step one in conversations, the Soul Map marker:

Ask: Where's the person right now?
That’s that question in the Garden of Eden: "Where are you, Adam and Eve?"

Emotionally, spiritually, relationally—begin by listening deeply to their present reality.

Presence over pressure.
In many ways, this overlaps with some of our previous work, from Hello to Amen. If you were to put it down in a step model, this really comes down to one question: Where are you now?

Yeah, in fact, in some ways, that's like a go-to question.

Yes. It actually—it's a good way to start with any person you meet. Anywhere. Like—anywhere. After church, you meet someone and have coffee. In my mind, I'm going, where is this person at? Where’s his soul at?

Are we just going to talk about the coffee? How was your coffee?

Right? But I want more than just...

Exactly. How, in light of this, do I get to:

• What's going on in your life?

• What are you excited about?

• What's the one great thing that happened in your life this week?

• And one frustration?

Right? I might ask that. Well, that opens a whole different conversation than just talking, you know... just casual.

• What did you celebrate this month? This week?

🌳 Step 2: Genogram Layer

Number two—oh, now we come to the genogram layer.

Explore: Backgrounds, patterns, family influence.
Ask: Where have you seen this before?
Gently name wounds, cycles, blessings.
Healing begins when roots are revealed.

In other words, it's all about—you know, we are connected to our entire... that which came before us, and the relationships in our lives. We're not just this lone thing; we are connected to a whole.

So if I want to know you, Henry, I'd say, "Well, who are you, Henry? Tell me who you are."

And then you start saying some things, and I ask some questions about that. And then in order to get to this number two, I might ask, "How do you think you became like this?"

Right? "You seem like a real outgoing person, right? What do you think made that? How do you think that got created?"

And now you have to go: "Well, I don't know... my grandmother..." You know, whatever. Now we're...

Exploring. "Well, when I was young, I did this, and then I went to college, and I worked at a radio station."

And because I read, all of a sudden, I had to deal with the public, and I had to speak clearly... You know. And all of a sudden, that created some things that I've used ever since.

And all of that becomes part of a story.

You know, in other classes, we talk about the importance of a testimony, and even the importance for a minister that you know your testimony. And we’re not talking just about how you came to know Christ—but those ways in which the Lord drew you in to be interested in the experiences that made you who you were.

Those things that fueled your calling—you know, all of those are part of that genogram layer, so to speak.

📖 Step 3: Scripture Encounter

Step three: Scripture encounter.
Again, we're ministers, so we have our minister book. And that book is the Bible.

So one way is: they're talking about their life, and then a Scripture may come to mind that you would have.

I had this experience with the guy who took over my church plant—and the guy who took over for him interviewed us. And he said something like that.

He said, after listening to us talk for about 45 minutes (it was a podcast), "You know, this Scripture, while you guys were talking, comes to mind."

And it's the Scripture where Paul says, "I not only shared my life with you, but my heart as well."

He said, "That's what I'm hearing from both of you—that you guys are the kind that want to not just share your life with your people, but your heart. And I see that in both of you. And that's how this church got started."

And so I'm feeling like this is a legacy. But he, you know, he saw it and volunteered it to us.

Well then, we go, "Oh yeah, that's God. That's a good reflection." So that’s one way.

The other way is to ask them:

• "What verse do you think plays into this whole thing?"

• "Does anything come to mind?"

Again:

• What does this reveal about God?

• About you?

• Let God speak through His Word.

You know, we were trained in the Bible at a seminary that took the Bible very seriously. We have been involved in ministry for decades now, and we have seen the power of God’s Word when we, as ministers, bring the application—the Word—to situations:

• That disrupts negative patterns

• That disrupts self-loathing

And again, it’s back to that tacking of grace and truth.

Yes. And here is the Word of God—yes—that works that way. Here’s the Holy Spirit that takes Scripture and takes someone where they are and moves them to where they never thought they could be.

Right? Yeah. It’s just—you know, again—to be a minister is just so amazing.

🧠 Step 4: Ministry Sciences

So then we have Ministry Sciences.

Now this is where even secular science, as we look at it from a Christian perspective—if you apply biblical wisdom—you can see it all over the Proverbs. You know, a lot of the things... and you’ve made this point so often, that the best in psychology has already been in the Scriptures.

Yeah.

So it’s not like psychology is bad. It’s that psychology must be interpreted through the wisdom of God, right? And so a lot of the discoveries of the modern world are, like, little breadcrumbs that point back to biblical truth.

So we’re saying, in Ministry Sciences, you can bring in these practical helps—they might come from things like motivational interviewing, or family systems theory—but we’re always looking through the lens of truth and grace, and the foundation of Scripture.

And Ministry Sciences help us understand the soul journey and relational patterns that people are walking through. They help us with strategies—but not in a manipulative way. More in a Spirit-led, biblically informed way to help people walk forward in truth.

🔄 Step 5: Take Spirit-Led Action

And then we come to the final step: take Spirit-led action.

Now, this isn’t just “do something” for the sake of doing something.  What is God calling this person to do as a result of what has come up in the coaching conversation?

It might be:

• Reach out to someone

• Confess a sin

• Start a habit

• Let go of a burden

• Or pray and wait

It’s not just about telling people what to do. It’s about helping them sense what the Spirit is prompting them toward, and then supporting them in taking that next step.

Because coaching is about transformation, right? And transformation requires both truth and grace, and then movement.

So, to review:

📝 The Five-Step Coaching Model Recap

1. Where Are You Now?
   (Soul location: emotional, spiritual, relational awareness)

2. Genogram Layer
   (Background, patterns, family influence—naming and noticing)

3. Scripture Encounter
   (Letting God's Word speak to the situation)

4. Ministry Sciences
   (Using biblically aligned wisdom to interpret and guide)

5. Take Spirit-Led Action
   (Helping the person respond to God’s leading tangibly)

This five-step coaching conversation model isn’t rigid—but it provides a clear path for helping others experience Spirit-led transformation in a way that is biblical, practical, and personal.

📚 Psychology, Theology, and the Power of Scripture

I majored in psychology, and then I went to seminary. After that, I earned a degree in psychology, and I learned a great deal about what motivates people—how people interact, which is the essence of psychology—from the Bible.

The entire Bible is the story of God's interaction with His people. God and people. And people with people. People who believe, people who don't believe—all the shenanigans that people get into:

• The conflict

• The problems

• The resolutions

• The grace

• The redemption

• The battles

It’s all woven throughout Scripture.

🗣️ Bringing the Word of God Into Coaching

So, as a minister—as a coach—you have the privilege of bringing that Word of God into the conversation wherever it might fit.

It can fit anywhere:

• In the beginning

• In the middle

• In the end

• As part of the solution

• As part of the exploration

• As part of the commitment

You can bring it in. You can ask them to bring it in. You can say, "Let’s find it together."

That’s what’s so cool about Scripture. It’s almost like another person in the conversation.

🤔 Biblical Truths Hidden in Plain Sight

I find that fascinating, too. Like, so many times, some people say:

"I got this great self-help book about becoming a listener."

Okay, oh, I’d like to see it. So, I open the book, and in the first chapter, three great Proverbs verses are already there. The praise goes to the social sciences; however, the Proverbs had already established those truths.

Then here’s another chapter about "Forgiveness will set you free." Yeah, I just had someone say that in a sermon.

They were listening to a popular church pastor, and their church is going downhill. So he said, "It seems like he's just a motivational speaker."

I said, "You think if he were less motivational, that would be a better thing, right? Like—is our goal to be less motivational?"

Then he said, "Well, I don’t know. It’s just a bunch of psychology."

And I said:

"What do you think the Bible is?"

🧠 Psychology and the Bible

What do you think the Bible is about?

Isn’t the Bible about the psychology of why people do what they do—and why people don’t do what they should?

We actually have the insight as to why people do it:

• Because of sin

• Because God calls you

• Because of grace

• Because of the law

• Because you’re trying to prove yourself

On and on and on.

We’re the ones that invented—well, the word psychology is the study of the soul. That’s how it was initially defined.

Then it shifted over time to the study of human behavior, as many modern philosophers began to argue that humans have no soul.

And now, it’s the study of identity and transformation, you know, constructing a new reality.

But the reality is—the study of the soul, or psychology, is the study that the Bible is deeply involved with.

🔗 Connecting Theology to Life

So, apply biblical wisdom and ministry insights to help connect theology to life.

When you actually study theological courses here, you’re learning how to be a better coach. When you’re taking Bible courses, you’re studying how to be a better coach.

We don’t want you to forget about studying the Bible and theology, and then jump into ministry coaching, forgetting that the richness of the Bible is your foundation.

⚖️ Justification and Sanctification in Coaching

For example, consider the doctrines of sanctification and justification.

• Justification means we are saved by grace alone. It has nothing to do with what we do—not by law, not by works.

• Sanctification is the process by which we become increasingly like Christ. In other words, it’s our growth path.

You could be counseling someone who’s confused about those two things.

People can start thinking:

"God only loves me when I’m making improvement in the sanctification world."

That is, "God is happy with me when I’m doing well. He’s not happy with me when I’m not."

And then they confuse that with justification—as if they’re saved by their sanctification.

But God does not save you because you’re working on sanctification, or because you’ve reached some point of progress.

He saves you free and clear, with no connection to anything you’ve done or ever will do. And whatever you improve on, He won’t love you more because of it.

That’s justification.

🧒 A Child of God, Growing in Grace

Sanctification is the process of becoming more like Christ. So that theology you’ve studied at CLI—that’s not just theology "out there."

It’s theology that makes a real difference in people’s lives.

Let’s say you’re coaching someone who thinks:

"Because I’m failing at my Christian walk, God doesn’t love me."

Now you can bring in those doctrines:

"Let me tell you about these two doctrines, so you can become clear that one is not the other. God loves you no matter what. His love does not depend on your progress. Do you understand that?"

And now, when you’re trying to work on things, you can say:

"You can accept who you are as a child of God—a beautiful child of God—who is working on things."

Being a beautiful child of God and working on things are not mutually exclusive—like these two doctrines.

🛡️ Spiritual Warfare and the Bigger Picture

So your theology isn’t just theological—it relates to what people are actually going through.

And as you study deeper—for example, we have a class on Spiritual Warfare—you’ll start seeing:

"Hold it, there are other forces at play in this person’s life."

There are spiritual forces affecting relationships. There are spiritual barriers that hold you back—not just flesh and blood.

As Ephesians 6 says:

“Our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers.”

🎓 The CLI Training Toolbox

As you study here at CLI—maybe our psychology class, our communications class, or others—it all becomes part of your toolbox.

It’s not just about using a model or steps. It’s about letting your style and your Spirit-led reflection shape the way you minister.

And I see that. I’ve seen the Lord use Steve in this. And he’s seen the Lord use me in this work.

⛳ Ministry in Everyday Encounters

This weekend, we attended a large Country Club Golf Outing. Every single relationship we started that day—with people we’d never met—they were interested in what we do as ministers.

And it’s interesting how all these things—Scripture, theology, psychology—they become tools that God uses in your conversations. And God gets the glory in all of it.

🆓 Don’t Shortcut Your Training

Don’t shortcut your training. This training at Christian Leaders Institute is offered free of charge to you. Donors support it—maybe you, maybe others.

And share it. Because you might find yourself in a relationship where there’s trouble, and you can say:

"Hey, take this class with me."

See what a conversation—not even one you’re leading—can do in that person’s life. And in your own life, as you journey together, learning new things.

🙏 Step 5: Restoration Prayer

Once again, we return to Step Five: Restoration Prayer.

This is restoration prayer.

Close with prayer for healing, direction, and blessing. Let the client pray if ready.

I think that's a key part that a lot of people are reluctant to do—they don’t feel they know how to do it.

They’ve heard public prayers. They've listened to people who know how to start the prayer, who know how to put in the correct phrases, who know how to bring that prayer in for a nice landing—yeah? And they don’t know any of those. It’s like a big, huge mystery.

So maybe part of what you're going to do is say:

"You know, I want us to just end with a little prayer. And here’s what we’ll do: I’m just going to say the word 'Thanksgiving.'”

And if anything comes to your mind that you’re thankful for, just mention it. Your family? Now you're helping them pray with just one word.

Then:

"I'm going to say the word 'Needs.' If there’s anything you'd like God to do in your life, just say those things."

And then:

"How about if I say the word 'Confession'—if there's anything you're sorry about, or that you feel bad about, just say them."

Now you’re just helping them own their prayer a little bit.

🔓 Releasing the Spirit Through Personal Prayer

It seems like the Spirit gets released in a way when people own part of that process.

Oh, we have seen this.

We have seen it, and you may even underestimate what can happen. What can happen will be:

“Eye has not seen, ear has not heard what God has prepared for those who love Him.”

And He will enter into these conversations, yeah?

For example, like people in grief. You talk about it, talk about it, talk about it—and then you say:

"Can I pray for you?"

A lot of times, when you’re done praying, they’re in tears, right?

Because there’s something that happens in prayer that is different than just talking.

👏 Ministers Minister — Without Apology

As a ministry coach, we get to leverage all of this—without giving an apology. No separating religion from real life. We’re ministers.

Ministers do this.

Okay? You're coming to a minister. If you want to hire a life coach, go ahead and do so.

This is ministry. This is just the air we breathe.

We breathe this air. We breathe this air.

🔄 The Sacred Flow: Putting It All Together

So we put it all together—and each step builds on the last:

1. Soul Map – Where are they?

2. Genogram – Where do they come from?

3. Scripture – What does God say?

4. Insight (Ministry Sciences) – What needs to shift?

   • What have you learned?

   • What have you learned from other places?

   • Was there a book you read recently?

5. Prayer – What is God doing now?

So really, this is a sacred flow.

“He restores my soul.”

This five-step conversation isn’t a formula.
It is a faithful pathway.

Trust the Spirit.
Stay present.
Watch God work.

🔥 God Is Still At Work

We have seen this—haven’t we, Steve?

And we have. And we still see it to this day. And we love it. We love seeing it all the time.

And it doesn’t go away, because God is alive.

📖 Testimony of a Divine Encounter

You know, today—I thought it was fascinating when I asked someone an open-ended question like:

“What’s your story?”

This individual knew we were ministers, so he knew it would be a ministry situation.

And what he brought up was absolutely incredible.

He was in his teens and had lost a loved one. It was late into the night. He was at a job cleaning a bathroom—a women’s bathroom.

Here's a guy, in the middle of the night, at a job, cleaning the bathroom—and he's in deep despair. He’s crying. He’s crying. He’s lost a dear loved one.

He’s thinking to himself these big questions:

“Is there a God? Why is this happening?”

Then he tells the story:

“I saw a book. It was upside down—left between two things—in a women’s bathroom. What’s that about?”

He had already cleaned it, so he’s confused.

“Did I miss this?”

He’s so wrought with grief—he doesn’t know what’s going on. So he bends down to clean it again... picks it up...

It’s a Bible.

And it’s already open—already open to 1 Thessalonians, where it says:

“We do not grieve as those who have no hope.”

And now, that is his life verse.

That verse changed him as a teenager—because God showed up.

👼 Coaching Angels and God Moments

You know what that is?

That’s God's ministry coaching.

God might have even sent a coaching angel—using one of these steps.

“That guy needs a step right now. Here's Scripture.”

There weren’t enough ministry coaches at that time.

But now here you come along, and angels can do other things.

Let’s keep it up, everybody.