Video Transcript: Spirit-Led Listening

Henry - So we're back, and I'm just thinking about, what are the ending of our last conversation too, about, you know, in spirit led listening. If I go back to this even intro slide, it's turning your ears to God and to others, as opposed to a coach where who is not connected to God, 

Steve - right? He'd be turning your ears back to you. 

Henry - Yeah. So what? So essentially, let the I and we know this. We've been into the coaching programs. And we know what the secular coaching programs are like, and it is really true. In fact, they're very like clear about teaching the coach not an non directive. There's you do not come with your bias. But the reality is, is that makes a lot of assumptions that the person you're coaching has good intentions, yeah, so if somebody did have malicious intent, secretly, that is to just be greedy, and who cares who he used or she used. And then they go to a coach, and the coach is saying, helping them get there faster and destroy the world of their world, so to speak, yeah, it is fascinating. 

Steve - Yes, yeah, you want a divorce. Let me help you get get to that quicker. I know. Yeah, it just 

Henry - and in fact, we have seen that so often in the industry, where someone goes to a coach and, you know, someone asked them, you know, so do you like Do you love your wife? That's a good question. No guidance, no asking. What does God want? Then the next question is, well, let's, let's make a goal to find out if it you even want to be married. Yeah. Okay, so now, all of a sudden, now there's ownership, and let's talk about the positive. Let's talk about strategies to find out whether or not 

Steve - which is leading the person right? Because now you're making it a you could this, or you could do that, but if that person is a Christian, it's not okay. You had a made a vow, you did these things. How does that fit? You know now, could there be brokenness? Could this possibly happen? Yes, but now you have to deal with all that. Yes, you have to deal with your faith. You have to deal with the church. You have to deal with the promise you made in front of your family and friends, rather than you could just excuse, forget it, right? Let's not even think about it. Let's just think about what you like and what you don't so the coach is now saying, the metric upon which we will help I will help you make a decision is what you like and what you don't like, right? He's deciding that, rather than No, you you got married in a church. So let's look at following a vow versus breaking a vow. Let's make that the metric now and talk about it now. I'm still not directing you, I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just bringing up like you're the one that got married in the church, right? So I'm bringing that up to you. 

Henry - You claim to be a Christian, you claim to walk with God and so really, and that really is what we're talking about today with these objectives. Understand the difference between active and spirit led listening. Learn to listen beneath the surface. Discern God's voice while hearing others. Practice listening as a spiritual discipline. So now we're actually starting to venture into some of those distinctive ministry Christian coaching, where we coach in a worldview. So why listening matters. Listening honors the image of God and others. People feel safe when they're heard. Spirit led. Listening open space for healing and conviction. So we've talked about the importance of listening, but listening functions in a very holy way. 

Steve - Yeah, I think it's the it's sort of the picture of the gospel, right? God comes to us and at first says, I love you. I think of this parable The prodigal son, where the son comes home, you know, he spent all his father's money, and now he's starving, and he goes back home, they're eating good, and you're I'm starving. How I gotta go back home? I gotta, right? I gotta. I can't just walk back home, like, maybe I, if I confess, I get something. So he's thinking, if I do this, maybe I'll get something. So he comes home, and his father accepts him before he opens his mouth, yeah, he doesn't even get the confession out. And his son, his father's already taken him back as a son. So he's overwhelmed with this, I'm loved, I'm accepted. Then the son says, I'm not worthy to be called your son. But he doesn't say, make me one of your hires, right, right? He practiced it, yeah, but he doesn't say it. And why doesn't he say it? Because he's already been made a son again. Yes, so, so why is he confessing? He doesn't get anything more. He already got more than he ever imagined. He confesses it now because now he really feels sorry for what he did, yes. So in other words, when you're in the presence of grace, when you feel loved and accepted and listened to, now, you're open to the mistakes you've made. You're open to looking taking a hard look at what you did or what you didn't in your marriage or as a parent or as a father, or with friends or in the church, or with your relationship to God, or whatever disaster has happened into your life, the grace sense that you're going to accept me, regardless of all that I may now have the courage to actually talk to you about it. 

Henry - So listening as a mirror and grace as really the reflection, yeah? What that that comes together in a very powerful way of transformation? Yeah? 

Steve - Because if you just said, let's say I was a horrible looking person, and then you gave in to me and say, Here, Steve, see what you look like. Okay, how am I going to have the courage to let's say I got an accident. I have a bandages. You're taking the bandages off, and then you're finally going to look at what you look like, but your wife gives you a big kiss before you look in the mirror. Wow, see. Okay, I am loved. Regardless of what I'm going to see in the mirror right now I can look otherwise. When I look, hold it, 

Henry - and that is as a coach that is, in a sense, metaphorically, is to people are very self loathers Yes to begin with, yes, and they're already loathing themselves even talking to you like what a failure I am to have to talk to a coaching minister, yeah, a minister coach. That is what a failure I am. But if you give wrap them around, and you respect them and let them know that this is this, 

Steve - we all have this. Yes, and I will listen. We will do whatever it takes. You know, 

Henry - Jesus the listener he listens to, cries, questions, hearts, Bartimaeus, that's the one. What do you want? What do you want me to do? The woman at the well active versus spirit led listening. So now we're going to actually, there's a little bit Ministry of sciences here, because it I did a people smart class. We've done the influence smart class. And as we studied all of this, there's the active listening, which is sort of what you can get anywhere. In fact, it's a good principle. It glorifies God in creation, but then spirit led listening. So let's talk about that so active focus on the content and empathy. Very important spirit led discerns what God is doing under the words. Now again, part of me realizes how scary this is for someone who's new, because they might be thinking or how careful you must be if you because to discern what the Holy Spirit is telling you includes in your own life, inner prayer, discernment, scripture, recall. So you know that spirit led listening is something that is cultivated as we become more humble, more knowledgeable, more ministry training. So in some ways, as we take this here, we put this out, but with also this caveat that starting with good, active listening is a great place to 

Steve - start. Yeah, and active means you say something, and then I inquire more about what you meant by that, right, right? I'm not going to assume a bunch of stuff, so let me ask you what you mean by that. How'd you feel about that? I want you to talk more about it than the words you're giving me, because I don't want to miss it. I don't want to throw in my own judgment about what you're saying. I want to really listen to you. So that's what active listening is, discerning is, you know what God might be doing? You know? Now, I like the words you what might be doing. You don't know Yes, and that there's a passage in scripture says that test the spirit yes and see. So in other words, it's, there's only one Spirit, and He speaks, you know, one truth. So if the Spirit of God is actually talking to you about what's going on here, under, under everything, don't just, you know, the spirit is telling me that you're right, or whatever it might be, it'd be like humility. I think I'm wondering if the Spirit, I'm getting a sense of, maybe the spirit now I'm testing it with you, yeah. And you may, we're partners in this, yeah? And then you might go, I think you're right, right? Or you might resist. And it might be the spirit is saying that, but they're still resistant, yeah? Spirit, I don't know, but you gently go into this, not, you know, like a bull in a china shop. 

Henry - Well, often we've noticed the God card problem, yeah, and we've seen that with ministers that once they get trained and they start knowing scripture, and then they they see that someone's not changing quick enough, or they're not owning it, then right away the minister throws the Lord told me, yeah, that you 

Steve - say, Now what am I gonna? I have to call you a liar, you know, yeah, puts that person, 

Henry - yeah. And we've seen that is very spiritually manipulative, yes. And some would call it spiritual abuse, yes, to just throw a God card out there, and in active spirit led listening. There is no God card here, but there is a partnership with the Holy Spirit. Yes, and there is a fine line there, yeah, 

Steve - I'm sensing that the Holy Spirit might be saying this. Well, it's your sense, right now, if the Holy Spirit is working in them, maybe they'll agree with you, if there's a problem, and we don't still don't know what it is, then it's fine that we just identify your 

Henry - problem. That's all well, and we can say, That's it. The Holy Spirit has said there's a problem. Yeah, that's enough. And we've had that over the years where we'll see, you know, or we're talking in these very much, these principles, and we're not having a piece about something, yeah, and the only thing the Holy Spirit told us about is that we don't have we don't have clarity yet, and so what we need to do is talk more, pray more. Yes, wait on the Lord. Wait on the Lord. Talk to others more. And sometimes in the next morning, the Holy Spirit gives an idea, or sometimes someone enters into our life, and there it is, but the Holy Spirit only pointed us in a direction. Yes, listening as ministry. We often don't think of it that way. We think of it just as a people smart thing, 

Steve - yeah, a way, a means to something important. Oh, I hear that listening is a good way to do counseling. So it's a means to something rather than it is the something. It is the ministry. In and of itself. 

Henry - It is the ministry, yeah, it's it's 

Steve - communicating love. It's communicating. It's giving them a safe place to figure out some problems, or to give them the courage to finally say what their problem is. To you, it is the ministry. 

Henry - It is the ministry. Let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak. Listening is love in slow motion. Yeah, it requires presence, not performance, right? The role of silence, and we talked about this, silence is not awkward and sacred. Allow space for the spirit. Gives time for hearts processing. What do you take of time for heart processing? 

Steve - Yeah, well, I think any transformation like I am this, and I would love to be that, to get from this to this, it there's a million things holding me here, right, and I don't know what things are finally going to make me make the first step like you're, you're giving time listening, gives time for, well, this has the first half in my life. I first need to this, or I first need to, I need to think and pray about it for at least a week. You know, my wife's, right? I think about something, and I can decide right now, let's go do it, but I can't tell her, let's go do that. She needs at least a week to think about doing that. So her process time, let's say, might be longer to transform from us doing this to doing that. Would be a lot longer, because she needs to whatever it is. I don't know what it is, but for her, that's what she needs, more time heart processing and, you know, getting over our hurt before I forgive you. I'm too hurt to forgive you, right? But I but the Scripture tells us we have to forgive her, yeah, I know, but I am too hurt to so I need the process time of getting my heart healed. 

Henry - I'm an organic human. Yeah, I just am. I can't be like, turned on or off, even that. I have noticed this too. It helps you respond, not react. I do find that in my young ministry, people reacted negatively more because I did not give time for the heart to process, right? And I think that's like one of the signs that you might be going too fast if people are getting triggered all the time. Yes, and those are, again, these are just skills you learn. And not 

Steve - only are you triggering, they they're triggering you, like someone says something that you disagree with, and you right away correct it because it triggers you. Yes, right? You know, the argument for this thing, and you lay it on them rather than, well, why do you think that? Right? You ask a few questions and they Well, I this and I that. Oh, well, why did you think that? You know, like I spend instead of correcting them right away, they triggered me, though, right, right. He said it, and now I I'm chomping at the bit to correct them. That's about me thinking about them. 

Henry - Yeah, this is a very powerful class practical steps. In other words, pray before you meet, ask spirit guided questions. Repeat key phrases, notice shifts and tones, tears, tensions and again, leave room.

Steve - So how would you do that? NOTICE shifts and tone, tears and tension. So let's say the person starts crying. 

Henry - Well now all of a sudden you see the heart something is reigning. So what should I say? Maybe nothing ever right? Because you instinctively you want yeah. Anyway, give a clean Yes. Please stop crying. Yes, 

Henry - right? Big Boys Don't Cry. Well, it's uncomfortable. A lot of times men, if we're in a coaching relationship with women, and they cry, we don't know what? Well, sometimes we don't know what to do with our wives cry, right? So you know, it's just being silent. I also noticed too, in this shift, like, you all sudden, somebody, you're talking conversationally, and all sudden somebody will, like, start getting short sentences, you know, or the body language will all sudden shift. There's a, it's like, all of a sudden, and they're, they're saying things nice, but there's now a new tension in the room, 

Steve - yeah? So what caused that tension? So, you know, something you might do is, hey, I noticed that all of a sudden we had a different feeling. And Did something change? Did something change? Or did you did something? I don't know. I don't know what it is, right? Did you feel it? Yeah, I felt it, you know, yeah. It's like, you know, like 

Steve - you're just exploring something. You're not earth tears, yeah, okay, you first, you let them, of course, right? But then, why do you think that tears came to your eyes? Yeah? Because of this. 

Henry - And you can even compliment her, you know, tears are precious. Yeah? Instead of making it like, oh, we have to stop these tears, no, 

Steve - but, but they don't know themselves why they started crying. So, yeah, asking them to be in the problem solving helps them deal with that. Now, like, I don't know. Let me think about that. You mentioned my father, maybe, or whatever. It might be, something like that. And then, well, why your father? And then there's a tension with your father. There's unresolved something with your father. And every time you watch a movie and there's a father thing in there, you start having a little tear, right? Oh, okay. Well, what, you know, 

Henry - Spirit led discernment. What is the person not saying that? That's an interesting thing. You know, sometimes if we're quick to come to a conclusion, we think what a person is truly saying or not saying in our own mind, yeah, but what is the person not 

Steve - saying? Yeah, right. They might not be saying anything that you know, nothing. Do not mention anything is their fault at all, right? The whole time, right? Everybody else's fault, and not one. You've not done one thing wrong in any of it, right? So, what does that mean? 

Henry - Well, in here's something that I find interesting, and after a while, you'll get more and more skilled at this. Somebody will say something, you know, I'm just sorry that he felt that way, or I'm really, sincerely sorry he felt that way. Okay. You know, it struggles and pains me that he felt that way. Okay. You had sort of a trigger, you had sort of a neutral and yeah, it's sort of, I'm so hurt that he felt that way. But what is that person not saying? Is that I could be wrong, right? Okay? Is I'm sorry they feel that way, but that person's not exploring, is there a reason, something you did? 

Steve - Right? I'm assuming that you did something wrong, right? Right? When it could be I 

Henry - just misread everything, right? Or if, when you're with a client, the client is telling you how hurt they feel that someone felt that way. But maybe the client has to address. Do I have blood on my own hands because the client could have said I told that person that I was wrong, and I understand why that person felt that way. Yeah, okay. But again, this is very subtle, and that's that what the person is not saying. The person might be looking like they're saying that they've asked for forgiveness, but they're sorry, but they're not saying I am sorry I was or I am wrong. I am sorry. Please forgive me. They're saying I'm so sorry the person felt that way. They're not saying I'm taking responsibility for what I did wrong 

Steve - or how I created us. They they could just as well be blaming that person, right? 

Henry - So that's that spirit led discernment, and that's really where, what is the person not saying? What scripture services in your heart? And we found that, haven't we? Like the Holy Spirit just gives 

Steve - us scripture, yeah? Well, and even to ask them what Scriptures come to mind in this situation for you, yeah, and that may take you and may have revealed something that neither one of you could have anticipated, yes, you know, they might come up with a verse, and then you go, Well, how did, how do you think that related to anything that we were talking about? Yeah? And you might not know, right? And they might not at first know, but it somehow, it triggered that. 

Henry - Yes, what is the spirit highlighting? What direction is God nudging you to explore? And again, these are all, in a sense, semi directive, you know, where you're not telling anybody anything, really, here you're just creating the split the space for the work of God, yeah. So finally, we include conclude here with ears that hear. He who has ears to hear, let him hear. 

Steve - So simple, yeah, well, you know, Jesus says that again. And maybe, maybe we know, do this. 

Henry - Well, no spirit led. Listening is slower, deeper, holier. Listen for more than words. Listen for God and again, I think I want to go back to what you said earlier, that a minister coach has a perspective that, to me, is dynamite. It's changing. It's transforming. Because we truly know Jesus rose from the dead. We know there's grace. We know the cross finished the payment. 

Steve - And it's not just I'm the coach and you're the coachee. God is sitting at the table and yes, and we both acknowledge that Yes. And so the questions I ask, it me it'd be weird to ignore that third person in the room, 

Henry - yes. So powerful, so powerful.