Video Transcript: The 5-Step Ministry Coaching Conversation

Henry - Welcome back. So now we're going to talk about the five step ministry coaching conversation. So it's actually, you know, when, when we might have, like our you know, from hello to Amen, we might have sort of intentionality behind it, but this is now dealing with specifically what you say, how you get confidence and competence in holding these conversations. So first of all, the overview, right here, the overview, learn the five foundational steps of coaching session. Align your coaching with spirit led transformation. That's that semi directive type of approach to practice intentional biblical conversations that's now where you're inviting God into these very specific conversations. Oh, here we go to the word model again. Why a five step model? Steve, 

Steve - simplicity brings confidence and consistency. 

Henry - You know, that's a good point. Okay, stop there before we move on. Brings confidence and consistency. You know, that is a really good point, because we when I remember as a young minister, like sometimes, one time I get on a role and understand how to do it, but then I'd forget three things, yeah, but when you have a model or a five step model, you're saying this base, this base gets cut. I 

Steve - think to you, you know, that's the way sports are like we do. This is how this sport goes, and here are the rules. We know what to work on. We know what's next. Everyone else does too, and so as a team, we can all be on this together. The problem for like, the least I know for my ministry and probably some of yours too, is we were pretty good at adapting and going solo and making up the game as we went. Yeah, that's and because we could do that, we didn't rely on the rules and the laws, and then every time it was a new adventure. And that fits kind of our personality. But then when we try to help other people do the same thing? Well, they can't. They're not me, they're not you, they're they're like, I need, I need the steps. I need to know I don't, I don't have confidence, right? You had so many experiences. You could, you could do it this way, that way, or the next way, or I give the black backflip this way. Yes, I could hit a golf ball that way, yeah, and again, it's, it's, and you could recover from all your mistakes, right? Wasn't the best opener. It wasn't the best start, but I'm realizing that. So I make up for it with this thing. And you know, I have all these little plays to make up for my hard it's kind of like at the golf swing when you know there's the right way or there's the wrong way, and then you have to make corrections halfway through. And if you're a good athlete, you can do that right, but most people need it. Well, what's the easiest, best way to do this? Why don't we just do that instead of making it up every 

Henry - time? And so what a model does is it keeps focus clear. Yep, it builds trust over time. It follows the natural journey of the soul. So step one in conversations the soul map marker ask, Where's the person right now? That's that question in the Garden of Eden. Where are you Adam and Eve? Emotionally, spiritually, relationally, begin by listening deeply to their present reality, presence over pressure. So in a lot of ways, in this overlaps with some of our previous stuff, from hello to Amen. But if you wanted to put it down to a step model, so we're dealing with this model now it really is still that you know, where are you now? In fact, in some ways that's like a go to question. 

Steve - Yes, it actually it's a good way to start with any person you meet, anywhere, anywhere. After church, you meet someone, you're having coffee. If, in my mental mind, I'm going, where is this person at, right? Where is his soul at? Are we just going to talk about the coffee, 

Henry - right? How was your coffee? But right? 

Steve - But I, but I want more than just exactly God was saying, how, in light of this, how do I get to what's going on in your life? What are you excited about? What? What's the, what's the one great thing that happened in your life this week, and one frustration, I might ask that, well, that opens a whole different conversation. Than just talking, yeah, you know, just casual. What did 

Henry - you celebrate this month? This week? Yeah, very powerful. Number two, oh, now we come to the genogram layer. Explore backgrounds, patterns, family influence. Ask, where have you seen this before? Gently, name wounds, cycles, blessings, healings begins when roots are revealed. In other words, it's all about we are connected to our entire that which came before us and the relationships in our life. We're just not this lone thing, but we are connected to a whole. 

Steve - So if I want to, if I'm wanting to help you, Henry, I'd be like, well, who are you, Henry, tell me who you are. And then you start saying some things and ask some questions about that. And then in order to get to this number two, I might ask, How do you think you became Right? Right? You seem like a real, outgoing person, right? What do you think made that? How do you think they got created? And now you have to go, Well, I don't know my grandmother, you know, whatever, all of a sudden now we're exploring. Well, when I was young, I, you know, I did this, and then I went to college, and I worked at a radio station, right? Because all of a sudden I had to deal with the public, and I had to, you know, and all of a sudden, now, that created some things that you used ever since, wow, 

Henry - and all of that becomes part of the story. You know, in other classes, we talk about the importance of a testimony and even an importance for a minister that you know your testimony. And we're not talking just about how you came to know Christ, but those ways in which the Lord drew you in to be interested in the experiences that made you who you were, right, that those things that that fueled your calling, you know, all those are part of that genogram layer, so to speak, right. Step three, Scripture encounter. Again, we're ministers, so we have our minister book, and that book is the Bible. So one 

Steve - way is they're talking about their life, and then you a scripture may come to mind that you would have in mind. I had this with my former or the guy that took over my church plant, and the guy that's taken over for him interviewed us, and he said something like that. He he, he said, after listening to us talk for about 45 minutes as a podcast. He said, You know this scripture where you guys were talking comes to mind, and it's a scripture where Paul says, I not only shared my life with you, but my heart is why. He said, that's what I'm hearing from both of you, that you guys are the kind that want to not just share your life with your people, but you want? And I see that in both of you, and that's how this church got started. And so I'm feeling like this is a legacy that, but he in others, he saw it and volunteered it to us. Well, then we go, wow, yeah. And that's kind of, that's, that's a good reflection. So that's one way. The other way is to ask them, what what verse Do you think plays into this whole thing? Does anything come to mind? 

Henry - Right again? What does this reveal about God, about you? Let God speak through His Word. You know, we were trained in the Bible at a seminary that took the Bible very seriously. We have been involved in ministry for decades now, and we have seen the power of God's word when we as ministers bring the application the word to situations that disrupt negative patterns, that disrupt self loathing, you know? And again, it's back to that tacking of grace and truth. And here is the word of God that works that way. Here's the Holy Spirit that takes scripture and takes someone where they are and move them to where they never thought they could be, right? Yeah, it's just, you know, it again, to be a minister is just so amazing. So then we have Ministry of Sciences. Now this is where even secular science as we look at it from a Christian perspective, if you apply biblical wisdom, and you can see it all over the Proverbs, you know, a lot of these things, and you made this point so often that the best in psychology has already been in the scriptures. Yeah. 

Steve - Yeah. I majored in psychology and and then then I went to seminary. After that, I got a degree in psychology, and I learned way more about how people what motivates people, how people interact, which is what psychology is about, from the Bible, right? Whole Bible is the interaction of God and His people, God and people and people, people who believe, people who don't believe, all the shenanigans that people get into, the conflict, the problems, the resolutions, the grace, the redemption, the battles, the everything, it's all we all throughout Scripture. So, so as a minister, as a coach, you have the privilege of bringing that Word of God to the conversation wherever it might fit right. It can fit anywhere. It can fit in the beginning, in the middle of the end. And part of the solution, part of the exploration it could be, part of the commitment it could be. And you can bring it in. You can ask them to bring it in. You can say, Let's find it together. You know, that's what's so cool about Scripture is almost like another person that you're sitting 

Henry - Yeah? Well, you know, and I find it fascinating to like so many times, like, somebody will say, I got this great self help book about becoming a listener. Okay, so, oh, I like to see it. Okay. So I open the book up and and it has in the first chapter there, those were three great Proverbs verses that were already there. All glory be to social sciences when the Proverbs were all way there. Oh, they hear the other chapter about, you know, forgiveness will set you free, yeah. 

Steve - I just, I just had someone or the sermon that they, they were listening to some popular church pastor, and their church is going downhill. So he, you know, it seems like he's just a motivational speaker. I said, You think if he was less motivational, that would be a better thing, right? Like, is that our goal to be less motivational? And then Then he said, Well, I don't know. It's just a bunch of psychology. I said, What do you think the Bible is? What do you think the Bible is about? Isn't the Bible about the psychology of why people do what they do and why the people don't do what they do like we actually have the insight as to why people do it right? It's because of sin, or it's because God calls you, or it's because of grace, it's because of law, or it's trying to prove yourself. It's on and on and on. We're the ones that invented, well, the word 

Henry - psychology is the study of the soul. That was how it was originally made, and then it shifted over time to the study of human behavior, because many of the modern philosophers started to say in that humans have no soul, right? And now it is the study of identity and and, you know, transformation, you know, kind of constructing new reality, but, but the reality is the study of the soul. Psychology is the study that the Bible is deep involved with, right, right? So apply biblical wisdom and ministry insights help connect theology to life. You know, when you actually study theological courses, here, you're actually studying how to be a better coach. When you're taking Bible courses, you're studying how to be a better coach, right? We want you to have all of this. We, in fact, we don't want you to just forget about studying the Bible theology and then just jump into a ministry coaching approach and forgetting that the richness of the Bible is your foundation, 

Steve - yeah. Or, for example, the doctrine of sanctification, the doctrine of justification. Doctrine of justification, we are saved by grace alone, has nothing to do with what we do. It's not by law, not by works. Sanctification is the process where we by we become more and more like Christ. So in other words, it's our self, it's our growth path, right? Okay, so you can be counseling someone who is confused about those two things. People can get confused and start thinking that God only loves me when I'm making improvement in the sanctification world, right? I'm making improvement, and then God is happy with me. He's not happy with me when I'm not. And then they confuse it with justification, as if they're saved by that right? God is not. God doesn't save you because you're working on sanctification or because you're at some point in sanctification. He saves you free and clear with. No connection to anything that you've done or will ever do, and whatever you improve on, he won't love you more because of it. That's justification, right? Sanctification is that process, okay? So, so that theology, you know, you've studied this at CLI, and you know that theology, and now you're dealing with this client who is now confused about that they think that because they're, they assess that they're, they're on a poor path in terms of sanctification, then the God doesn't love them, right? And now you can bring this those doctrines. Okay, look, let me tell you about these two different doctrines so that you become clear, right? That one is not the other. Yes, that God loves you no matter what you do, and his love for you does not depend on your improving. Yes. Do you understand that? You know, and now you can understand that when we're trying to work on things too, you can accept who you are as a child of God, a beautiful child of God, who is working on things, right? Okay, being in a beautiful child of God and working on things are not mutually exclusive, like these two doctrines. So, so your point of the theology that you know is not just theology out here, right? It's theology that can make a difference and relate to exactly what people are going through Well, 

Henry - in as you study deeper, so we have a class on Spiritual Warfare, you'll start seeing that hold it. There's other forces that are in clients' relationships, okay? There are other forces that hold you back as a minister, as a child of God in their spirit. Our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, as we read in Ephesians 6. So you know. So as you study here at CLI and then you'll take maybe our psychology class, our communications class, you'll take other classes in all of this is gets part of the reflection of a step where now you bring to your ministry more than just a model or steps in relationships, your style now because and I see that, and I can tell you that I've seen the Lord use Steve in this, and he's seen the Lord use me. And that's where I mean this weekend, where I we mentioned we're at a whole big Country Club Golf Outing thing. Okay, in every single relationship that we started taking, we never knew they're always interested ministers, you know, but it's interesting how all of these things become in your toolbox, and you reflect upon them all, and God gets the glory in all these conversations. Yeah, yeah. Don't shortcut your training. This training that Christian Leaders Institute is free for you. It's supported by maybe you as a donor and many others, but in share it, because in you, you might even find that you'll share. You're in a relationship and there's trouble. Hey, take class with someone else and see what a conversation that you're not conducting or leaning can do in that person's life and in your life as you journey together, learning things. So again, we go back to step five, restoration prayer. Now this is restoration prayer, 

Steve - close with prayer for healing, direction and blessing. Let the client pray if ready. So I think that's a key part that a lot of people are reluctant to, that they don't feel they know how to do it. When they've heard public prayers, they've heard these people who know how to, you know, start the prayer. They know how to put in the right phrases. They know how to bring that prayer in for a nice landing. Yeah, you know. And they don't know any of those. It's like a big, huge mystery. So maybe part of what you're going to do is, you know, I want us to just end with a little prayer. And you know what? Here's what we'll do. I'm just going to say the word Thanksgiving, right? And if anything comes to your mind that you're thankful, just mention your family. So now you're helping them pray with one word. And then I'm going to say our needs, right? And if you have anything that you'd like God to do in your life that you could just say those things, right? And then we're going to how about if I say the word confession, right? There's anything you want that you're sorry about, that you feel bad about, you could just say that, right? And so now you're, you're just helping them own their own prayer a little bit. And that, it seems like the spirit gets released in a way when people sort of own part of that process. Oh, 

Henry - we have seen this. We have seen it, and you may even underestimate what can happen, but it what can happen will be, Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, what God has in store for those who love Him, and He will enter into these conversations, yeah. Well, like what 

Steve - people like, for example, that are in grief or something. And you talk about, talk about, talk about, then you go, can I pray for you? Right? Okay, a lot of times when you're done praying, they're in tears, right? Because there's something that happens. There's something this is a level that they go to in prayer that is different than just talking 

Henry - right and as a ministry coach, we get to leverage all of this with with no giving them an apology, no separating religion from real life. We're ministers. Ministers do this. Okay, you're coming to a minister. If you want to go pay a life coach, go pay a life coach. This is ministry. This is just like the air we breathe. We breathe this air, we breathe in this air. So we put it all together, and each step builds on the last. Soul Map, where are they? Genogram, where do they come from? Scripture, what does God say? Insight, what needs to shift. What have you learned? What have you learned from other places? Hey, was there a book you read recently in a sense, that Ministry Science is, there's so many things that could be part of the it, too. And then finally, prayer. What is God doing now? So really, this is a sacred flow. He God restores my soul. This five step conversation isn't a formula. It is a faithful pathway. Trust the spirit. Stay present. Watch God work. We have seen this, haven't we, Steve, and we have and we still see it to this day, and we love it, and we love seeing it all the time, and it doesn't go away, because God is alive. You know, today, I thought it was fascinating when I asked someone like an open ended question about what's your story? And in the guy knew that we're ministers, okay, so you know that it's going to be a ministry situation. And in what he brought up was absolutely incredible, as I believe he was in his teens, and he had lost a loved one, and he and it was really, really late into the night, and he was in and he was in a job where he's cleaning a bathroom, a girl's bathroom, a woman's bathroom. Here's a guy in the middle of the night had a job cleaning the bathroom, and he is thinking in such despair. He's crying. He's broken down. He lost a dear loved one. And he's thinking to himself, such questions, is there a god? Why is this happening? So then he tells the story, I saw a book right in between two sinks, Upside down, upside down. Somebody left a book upside down in a girl's bathroom. What's that? 

Steve - Well, and he said he had cleaned it already. So he's, like, confused, yeah, did I miss 

Henry - this? Yeah, did I miss this? Yeah, it's like, he's but he's so wrought with grief. Yeah, he doesn't know what the deal was. So he bends down to clean this and picks up. He opens the Bible. It's a Bible. He turns it over, and it's opened up already, already opened up to Thessalonians, where it says, We do not grieve as those who have no hope. And now that is his life verse. And it's like people know that this guy was changed at a teenager because God showed up. Now, you know what that is? That's God ministry, coaching God by I wouldn't be surprised if God sent a coaching Angel that's using one of these steps. Yes, you say, You know that guy needs a step right now. And here's scripture. 

Steve - There weren't enough ministry coaches at that time. 

Henry - But now here you come along and angels can do other things. Let's keep it up, everybody. Yeah.