Video Transcript: Q & A with Henry Reyenga

Henry - Well, you know, I've been thinking a lot about those early families. And I don't know,  maybe three, four months ago, or even nine months ago, I read into a lot about slavery, I  actually watched like Spartacus. I wanted to see it's like, got me interested in what Wikipedia  that I read articles, I bought a couple of books. And what's interesting is the question I was  thinking about in early Christianity, did that early Christians, would it occurred to them, that  slavery or the enslaving of persons wouldn't have occurred to them, that these are image  bearers of God, and that that economic system was not correct. And they should move in a  different direction. I know in generations that followed some Christian ethics and started to  self aware at least analyze that. But in the early church, was that looked at?  

Carolyn - I don't think it ever occurred to them. To tell you the truth, it was so much part of  the culture. Okay. Abusing slaves? Yes. Certainly. And that's already among the philosophers. I mean, the philosophers are saying, Look, these, these are people too, and so treat them well,  but the institution, if they have a question,  

Henry - so Christians, then did treat their slaves different when the love of Christ came upon  them in terms of like caring for them or not, or  

Carolyn - I don't want to stress too much difference. Okay. I think I would say they were  among the more enlightened in terms of how to treat their slaves. They weren't the first to do  that. The, the philosophers understood that very well. But in but because of Christ, because I  think there was a different motivation perhaps, or a deeper motivation, because of Christ.  

Henry - Well, we have one passage in the scripture of Paul with Onesimus and Philemon  talking about a slave there and Paul seems to really honor the rights of slave over owner,  Philemon, Onesimus' case. And so I mean, you do seem that there's he's not trying to go  around that?  

Carolyn - No, he isn't, no. He's trying to deepen the human relationship and very much  respected for Philemon's rights as a slave holder, and was trying to create or deepen a  personal relationship between the two. We don't know what the issue was. Philemon is out of  the household without permission. That's pretty clear. Was he a runaway? Was he a fugitive,  there's, there's some suggestion that, that he was suffering some abuse and went to Paul to  appeal to Philemon. And that's also possible, whatever it is. He caught up with Paul. And Paul  is trying to say which the two of you know, make peace and come back together. But there is  one place in that letter in which it's rather ambiguous. But he does seem to be possibly  suggesting that Philemon Should manumit Onesimus in which case that would change into a  new kind of relationship.  

Henry - What's your take on the gospel being shared to slaves?  

Carolyn -I don't know what you mean.  

Henry - What I mean is like, it seems like Christianity, so many slaves became believers in  early Christianity. Well, did as people be they shared Christ.  

Carolyn - Oh, absolutely. Yes. The evangelizing the preaching the gospel was to everybody in  the household. Everybody in the workshop, and the the legal status, whether you were slave  or free, didn't make any difference. And that's, of course, something that created I think,  some tension when they went home, right, and the relationship was not an equal one. And  we'll we'll talk about that later.  

Henry - One last thing, is as like what Paul says, Slaves, obey your masters in everything, that Carolyn - as if to the Lord 

Henry - as if to the Lord  

Carolyn - because you are obeying Christ. That can be pushed in some wrong directions. One  would assume.  

Henry - So you think that could have happened in the wrong direction.  

Carolyn - Yeah, I do.  

Henry - Okay.  

Carolyn - Yeah. I mean, Christians were human, just like everybody else.  

Henry - Right. And they may have bifurcated their own life. Bifurcation means that they might have been into the Christian thing, but the kind of rights, let's say a slave owner or a male  with a slave female, that those are often compromising and commonly compromised positions for the woman and that may not have changed in the Christian home right away.  

Carolyn - That's right. And abusers frequently do bifurcate like that, you know, one side of  their life and then another side of their life, you know, something I meant to say actually,  during the segment, let me say now, when we talk about slavery, people often say, and it's  absolutely true, that there are forms of slavery continuing today, human trafficking is one of  them. The difference is. It's not legal. And, and that's a big difference, that this slavery was  legal, as it was in the United States for a couple of centuries too,  

Henry - and much of the buildings that we admire, now were built on the backs of slaves.  Carolyn - they were  

Henry - much of that culture, if you take the slavery element out of it, and slave persons  element out of it, we would not have that culture we have today. So it's it's a lot of ways again I get just in the way of the gospel, come into this world. And this world is ancient. This world is literary. They have literacy, they're reading, they have a language, Koine Greek that's vibrant, they have intelligence, they have philosophy, you know, so many things, they have a road  that you know, the Appian system that goes everywhere. They have enslaved peoples large  numbers of them. And here's where the Gospel comes in. So what a drama and in ministry,  we learn all of this, so that we might more effectively share Christ and understand the  implications then as we parse our world and share Christ with the implications of our life  today. So very impressive. Interesting.