Video Transcript: Communication Objective: Conversation
All right, in this session under effective communication class, my name is Steve Elzinga You probably figured that out by now. We've been together for some time. But and we're getting close to the end. So if you made it this far, congratulations. I want to talk about the art of conversation, and how to improve. Just being able to communicate when you talk to almost anyone. Why is conversation so important? Number one, it's how we connect with people. If you think about it, you connect with your parents by talking, you can connect with your friends by them talking to you and you talking to them. You you connect with the people at work you connect with a project that everyone's working on, and how would you do this project without some kind of conversation talking about things. A lot of conversation is built around specific things, you're trying to get work done. And it's very highly controlled conversation, there's a specific topic, and we want to get something done. And we stick on this topic until it gets done. But a lot of our conversation is just stuff that happens. You have breakfast and you sit down and you just start talking. You don't have a big plan. You meet a friend, Hey, how are you and you just start talking? And so in this session, what I want to talk about is, how can you improve your conversational skills, it's how we connect to people. It's, it's, it's how we grow as human beings. Number two, it's how we learn and grow. You learn from conversations with other people, they talk about things that you don't know you share what you know. And in the process, we learned things. Number three, it's how we do work, play family, friends, everything. It's part of almost everything that we do. That it's hard to imagine what it is that we actually thought about before we had words. When you see a one year old, and they don't have words, I mean, what are their dreams like? They did they just have pictures. And for most of us, we don't know what a picture is without putting a word. We see a tent. It's a tent, we see a cat we call it a cat. And so words make all the difference. Conversation makes all the difference. Number five, it's one of the greatest pleasures in life. People go out to eat, they sit down and what do they do? They talk. Now I know in our modern world, sometimes I see people sit down at a restaurant, there's four people sitting at a restaurant and they have their phones out there texting. While they're text, talking, it's still a conversation. Number six, being poor at conversation leads to misery. A lot of husbands and wives can attest to this. A lot of bosses will employees employees with bosses, poor conversation, poor communication leads to misunderstanding leads to all kinds of hurt leads to doing the wrong things, hearing the wrong things thinking the wrong things and then you pass it on to other people and relationships, which is the point of conversation, relationships explode. Alright. So do some people have an advantage when it comes to conversation? For example, there are people that are extroverted. And there are people that are introverted extrovert people like to talk, they get energy when they talk. They they see a stranger and they've got nothing to do they they enjoy they want nothing else to do, but talk and the
introvert likes his time alone. Introverts like to think they like to plan they'd like to architect and build things. And they're not talking to people often. Wears them out. So do do the extroverted people have an advantage over the introverted people when it comes to effective conversation? In some ways, yes, because they can engage in it very easily. And introverts, of course, then are penalized because they don't like to do it. But on the other hand, extroverts sometimes engage in all kinds of conversation And that doesn't go anywhere. They just like talking. And there's no purpose to the talking and, and they're talking can go all over the place. And sometimes extroverted people talk too much. And then the people around them don't enjoy the conversation, the goal of conversation is that we all enjoy it. So sometimes the introvert actually has an advantage because they stick on point. They can be extremely interesting people. And because they're introverted, they're more inclined to listen to someone. And to be frank, most people want to be listened to, they feel good about that. So I think there's as many positives and negatives for the extrovert and the introvert, it just goes differently. And each one has to work on different things. So if you're an extrovert, you have to work on you know, focus, what are you talking about letting other people talk letting other people have something to say introverts have to work, stepping out there putting their thoughts out there, and being willing to hang in there in a conversation. Okay, good looking versus average looking a lot of marketing would suggest that good looking people have a better time of it in life. People are hiring better looking people, a salesman, if they're better looking people will listen to. I don't think there's any accident that you look at some of these evangelists. They all have the nice, wavy flowing hair, they had, you know, they were good looking Billy Graham, or the long flowing hair, some of these other ones, too. Joel Olsteen, at least in our country, are these really good looking people. You don't see someone that looks like me is the evangelists. You know, no hair is slightly overweight, and so on. So it seems like good looking people have an advantage when it comes to conversation. But this is what I found. I found that really good looking people when I'm talking to them, if they don't make any sense, and they're not logical, and they have nothing to say, they they go down a notch in terms of what they look like to me. And people that are, you know, maybe average looking, but, you know, we're engaged in this really cool conversation, their looks go up. So I think if you if you can become just good at conversation, it's not gonna matter what you look like. Smart, not so smart. Again, it would seem sometimes that smart people maybe have an advantage, they can say a lot of smart things. But a lot of times smart people are smart in one way, but not so smart in another way. They're not smart in terms of relationships. They're not smart in terms of how a conversation is going and who feels in and who feels out and who's interested in who's not interested, how many details to give to a thing, and how to be interesting. You don't have to be smart to be a good conversationalist. You don't have to be at
the top of the class. You have to be observant. And we'll talk about some other things that you need. Rich versus poor. If someone knows that someone is really rich people tend to listen to them more. Because they think that the rich person has something but I'll tell you if you don't know whether people are rich or poor, it doesn't make any difference. So ultimately, conversation does not depend on that. All right, improving your conversational skills. I guess that's what I really want to talk about. Number one, you've got to learn to be interesting. No one wants to talk with someone who's not interesting. have interesting things to talk about. Don't just, you know, people that talk about the weather boy, it's really hot. It's been hot here lately and you meet someone. Boy, it's been really hot. me so yeah, it's really been hot. Yeah, it sure has been hot. Yep, it really has been hot. Okay. We've got nowhere to go with that. You know, try to be interesting. Boy it's really hot. Yeah, it is really hot. What are the kinds of things that you like to do when it's hot? See, now you can get onto something that's more interesting. Whether it's hot or not, who cares? It's, you know, let's talk about what you're interested in. Let's talk about what's fun. Let's talk about what's exciting number two memorize a few interesting stories around general conversational topics. You know, if you fly around a lot, you know from one city to another in the United States or around the world know something about these places. For example, O'Hare. O'Hare Airport in Chicago was actually named after a World War II pilot that got shot down his name was O'Hare, but do you know the backstory His father was a gangster in the Chicago area. And he didn't want his son to grow up in that. So he isolated his son from that allowed his son to get a really good education didn't want him to go into the family business. And O'Hare went into World War II became a pilot. And he got all kinds of medals because he risked his life, life to save others. He was a man of integrity, incredible success story, a person that you would want your children to be like. And all because his father decided he didn't want this for his son. That's the story behind O'Hare Airport. So if you have that, anytime you're in an airport, you're talking, you're meeting someone, you've got that story ready to go, have stories ready to go that relate to the different aspects of your life. And when you get into a situation, you know, when the opportunity comes, you have something really interesting to say. Keep up on current events, what's going on around the world. Listen to the news. Read the news. What are the things going on in the in countries? What's happening right now? In North Korea, what's happening with the Russians what's happening in Britain? In Ireland right now they're they're debating this whole thing, abortion, and they have laws that protect I listened to someone the other day on the radio, saying, Ireland is one of these countries that actually protects life from conception, till the day a person dies, we protect people's lives as a great way of saying it. Well, stay current on these things. sports, politics, movies, maybe you're not into movies, well keep up on these things. Because other people are, you have an entry point in a conversation.
People are talking about a movie, you can enter that conversation. And you can be an interesting player. Politics, a lot of times people get angry when they talk about politics be one of those that doesn't get angry. Ask questions. Don't be so dogmatic about things to give people space to think and believe what they want
to believe. And say things in a more winning kind of way. We'll talk more about that business. What's going on in the business world? The biggest companies in the world, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, some of these things. What do you know about these things? Can you talk about these things? Are you involved in these things? Learn a few jokes or humor, humorous tidbits from history. Lincoln just got back from Washington DC, where my son had defended his dissertation and went to Georgetown University. So while my wife and I were there, we went to the Ford's Theater where Abraham Lincoln was killed. We watched a play there. But in the basement, there's a museum. And you can actually see the coat that he was wearing the night he was shot and see the bloodstains and the pillow that he laid his head on. It's just fascinating, interesting stuff. We went to Washington, Washington's place Mount Vernon, and saw his house. And they have a museum there too. And they're on display is a set of his latest wooden teeth that were made wooden dentures that were carved out so that he can eat things. I learned that when he died, he had 55,000 acres all over the United States that he was buying land ever since he was young. So anyway, I go on and on and on. It's all interesting stuff. Know some of these tidbits from history. And you'll be surprised where these things just come up. And then you have something to say. Be a person of knowledge. Okay, know some stuff. Take Christian leaders, Institute classes, world history, learn something about things. So you actually have something to talk about. People want to talk with people that know something about something. My oldest son is a software developer. And while he's writing his code, he watches he has a documentary going on eight hours a day, 40 hours a week. He's been doing that for 10 years. He knows something about everything. He's interesting to talk to watch documentaries, read books, keep a notebook. I'm reading a book on Leonardo da Vinci and he kept a notebook. And inside the notebook, you'll find all kinds of things. But one of the phrases that keeps coming up over and over is I need to talk to the baker about this. I need to talk to the mortician about this. I need to talk to that math guy about this every, he had a bunch of questions. And he wrote in his, I have to talk to some real knowledgeable person about this thing. And then he'd write it in his notebook. Leonardo knew a little bit about everything. He was just fascinated. He would watch birds and study birds for hours. And he discovered that some birds, when they flap their ring, wings, press harder down, and less hard up, harder down and others do the opposite. And he's trying to figure out why that was, how they actually direct their, you know, how do they fly through the air? And how, how, how does air, keep them afloat? And that's he's trying to do, trying to design an airplane and a helicopter
and all these things. But it was all observations that he had about nature. And he wrote these things down. Learn how to ask interesting questions. One of the best questions you can ask anyone is, hey, in your opinion, what do you think of this? Because people like giving their opinions. When you say, Could I ask what your opinion is, you are putting that you're elevating them. You are the teacher and I am the student. If you come and say, Why do you think a certain way then I'm doing this condescending thing. But when I ask for someone's opinion, they become the experts and people like to be the experts. So here's the example. My friend thinks this. My friend thinks this about the rank Redwing hockey team in Detroit. He thinks that they're kind of a marshmallow team, very soft. And so what do you think? So I'm not saying this is what I think. And now if you disagree with me, we have this fight. I'm saying that I have this friend somewhere that you're never going to meet. He thinks this what do you think, and now the person is free leading is freely given his opinion, or I agree with your friend, or he's gonna say I totally disagree. I think the Red Wings are a finess team. And that the hockey situation right now is going towards big bruisers pushing and shoving. And I think we have to make rules that protect these Finess teams, because it's way more entertaining. Learn how to ask interesting questions that honor the person's opinion does not seem to be pushy, but ends up getting them to reveal more that that more than they thought they would. Okay, I'll give you example. One of this is one of my favorite questions. I can ask this of anyone at any time, and I rarely get anyone that's offended by it. Why do you think most people don't go to church? And what people will tell you is why they don't go to church. But if I had asked them, Why don't you go to church, they would be offended by that. See, now we have this battle. I just want your opinion of why you think that people out there somewhere don't go to church? Well, let me tell you why. And they'll tell you all the reasons why they don't go to church. See, I've made them the experts. I'm interested in learning from you. And people are interested in teaching people. Why do you think most people don't go to church? In other words, why do you think a lot of couples don't get married? Why do you think a lot of couples don't get married. So if you have that situation where you live about a couple of just getting married, and living together without getting married, and you want to get a handle on that you want to understand this phenomenon? Rather than upsetting everyone? Why not ask it in such a way that people actually enjoy the conversation? What do you think people don't get married these days. And they will tell you, they will give you all kinds of information, and they will enjoy doing it. And you have them thinking about something that you want them to think about, for the first time in a winning kind of way. Learn how to give your opinion on any topic while at the same time giving space for others to freely and willingly give theirs. Learn how to give your opinion on any topic, but the same time giving space for others to freely and willingly give theirs. Now, I have some strong beliefs about a lot of things. God is
real. The Bible is the only source of truth I have. I can go on and on about the things that I truly believe. But if I'm talking with some of that I'm pretty sure doesn't believe like I do. I can't just say things like this is the truth, even though I believe it is the truth. So I soften it this is what I believe This is what I believe. This is what I think. What do you think? See, I think something you think something. Now, just because I'm saying I think this and I think you think this doesn't mean that there's many truths. There's still one truth. You know? Truth is truth. Doesn't matter what anyone says. There aren't many truths. There's only one. But I'm, you know, being in the humble position of saying, Look, this is what I think the truth is, what do you think the truth is, I'm giving you space to say what you think. Because if I don't give you the space, to say whatever you think, I'm never going to convince you of my position, I can just brow beat it. If I can just say, well, this is the truth, and you're just better believe it, or you're off to lunch. That's not winning, that's not a great conversation. Learn how to never get angry because of what the other person said to people will, people you may be gracious to them. And you may say this is my opinion, but they may come back and tell you this is the way it is. And you you may disagree 100% With what they're saying. But you don't have to be disagreeable. Just because they're not engaging in the conversation in a winning kind of way. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't respond in a winning way. Another was the goal here and the conversation is to is to make a relationship. That's the goal. So maybe you're bad at conversation doesn't mean I should be bad back. And anger is the killer of all conversation. You want to kill a conversation, let anger take over, that someone can get angry. And if you get angry back, it just escalates. If someone gets angry at you, and you just retreat, one of the phrases that I've learned lately, you know, someone in my church says something to me, and they disagree about something or they want to complain about something. I often start off by saying you're probably right. Even if I don't think they're right. I say you're probably right. But here's another way of thinking about it. I am not the sole authority on all things. So you could be right. But here's another way to think about it. That's all I'm saying. Be humble, turn the other cheek. Never burn a bridge. It feels good. But don't do it. Learn why the other person may be angry. This challenge. They're angry. Your sermon last Sunday was horrible. You didn't preach from the Word of God, it was a bunch of, you know, I can get defensive, I can say but where I can, you know, but instead, they're angry at something. And I to help them need to help them figure out what they're angry at now, they're taking their anger out on me. I don't need to take that personally, they're angry at something else. And they're taking it out on me. You know, that's what people did when they put Jesus on the cross. That's what salvation is all about. If I'm a pastor, and I'm trying to help people, I have to be willing to take a few shots. And people aren't shooting me. They're shooting whatever, they're angry at, or they're shooting. They're angry at their own fathers that never said, I love you
and never spent any time with them. And they're taking it out on me. They're taking it out on you. So don't take it personally. Consider it a challenge. How do I discover what this person is really angry at? See, you can have this great conversations Learn how to enjoy a conversation with anyone. The challenge of the shy person, okay, the person doesn't want to say anything. I can see it as a challenge. This person doesn't like to talk. But he's shy, or he's intimidated. Or he's afraid of saying the wrong thing. So how do I engage with this person to help them come out of the bushes? The challenge of the talker that's almost even harder this person is talking and talking. You can't get two words in. You say something and they say 10 things. I find that the hardest challenge. I don't know what to do with the talker. They just keep keep talking. And if there's any space if you pause for one second, boom off they go, but it's a challenge again, I tried to challenge myself What can I do? What can I say hey, maybe we could let someone else talk for a minute. You know, the challenge of the know it all people that know everything and they have have an answer for everything and they think they're right about everything. That's, again, a challenge to how to stop is how to start a conversation. These are the basics, find common ground. Hey, I like your shoes. You know, I have I play pickleball to sport with a racquet. And some guy has my same tennis shoes. So that was my opener. Hey, where did you get my shoes? What size are they? You know, and we look at our shoes. Now whenever we see each other. We talk about the shoes, but the shoes was just an opening to have a conversation with someone that I didn't know. Occasion location, age, current events, ethnic background, Georgetown, I went to Washington, DC, Georgetown University, and I got there for my son's dissertation. And there was a guy in the elevator at the school. So he's in the elevator at Georgetown University. I'm in the elevator at Georgetown University. That's our connection. So that's what I asked him. I said, So what brings you to the elevator at Georgetown University? Well, I teach here, oh, really, I have a son going here. And so one thing led to another, he ended up staying to watch my son's dissertation defense. In the elevator, the common elevator connected us. Introduce yourself. This is my favorite way of introducing myself. I always say I don't think I've met you before. Now, maybe I did. And I forgot the whole thing. That's embarrassing. If I come up and say, I've never met you before, my name is Steve. And they say really? Because two years ago I was here. See, that's embarrassing. So I always start off. I don't think I've met you before. My name is Steve. And then they say, well, two years ago, we met Well, I did say I don't think I met you before I just don't remember. See it's a nice, safe way to do it. Ask questions. Where are you from? What brings you here? Who are you with? What do you do? I mean, basic information, questions. find common ground in the answers to your questions. They say what they're do. Oh, my father did that same thing. My father was a fireman, your father was a fireman. Wow, interesting. Or where they went to school? Or what they studied? Or what
they're doing for a living? Or what have they met their wife, or what church they go to and on and on and on, you find something that you can relate to that you can get into a conversation. If you find common ground explore doing something together, hey, you liked this sport. I like this sport, or you liked that sport, I think you would like this sport. And I play this sport, and I'm playing this Friday, would you like to go along, I can teach you. I can show you how one thing can lead to another they can be it can be the same thing. Or it can be an opposite thing. Hey, I, I've always wanted to do that. You think you could show me how to do that. I've always been interested in that topic. I'd love to come over some time. And we can discuss this more how to go deeper in a conversation look for their hurts in the conversation in their family, their business religion church, and gently ask them about them. I don't want to pry but I noticed that there that there is when you talked about your son, you know, there was some emotion there. So you're talking about family, and he mentions his son, and then he's it slips out a little bit. You know that there might be a little issue there. Okay, so it's difficult when you don't know someone, but this person is sneaking out this information. It means they sort of want to talk about but they don't have to, you know, how do they bring it up. I remember meeting a guy, it was in the middle of Wyoming, we were camping. And I got up real early and he was camping next door. And he was he was fiddling with something in his truck that was broken. He looked over me and he said, Hey, I see you made it through the night. And I just wanted to be alone, you know, have coffee before the kids and wife and everyone wakes up. And he wants to engage me in this conversation about his the part in the truck not working, where he came from, etc, etc. And so I'm not really paying, I'm not really engaging. I'm like, please go away. And but then, you know, the conversations going in sort of one sided. He said, Yeah, I came from Montana, and I did this and then I'm on my way here. And then he said something. He said, You know, I used to come with my wife doing this and this and this. And then he said, of course they don't have a wife anymore. He just met me. It wasn't like, Hey, I'd like to talk about the fact that my wife died a year ago and I'm lonely and I'm all alone. That's not what he's gonna say. But he let it slip out there. Okay. So when people let the little things slip out, it's a little hint. Really what happened to your wife? And now he wants to talk. See, now we have a conversation going. And you know what? I enjoyed that conversation because it was talking about real life, and real hurts. But you have to listen, sometimes those hurts and those needs are right below the surface. Ask opinion questions. What's your opinion about? Anything? People love giving their opinion? Ask feeling questions, how do you feel about this? How do you feel about it when your wife died? How do you feel about driving around now and camping? Without your wife? See, that's when you get to something. And it's more interesting for me. And it's more interesting for that person. Because they're good. It's to a deeper level. It's not just chit chat. And all of a sudden, nice
shoes, nice shoes. Or the sports teams doing either winning or losing, does the stock market, it's up, it's down. It's whatever. Okay, a lot of conversations, you know, pass the salt in, how's the car? It's not very fulfilling. The art of real conversation is how to go from the mundane, to something deeper, get a little deeper in the water and feeling questions. Get there? How do you feel about that? When we talk about being angry. Well, how angry were you? On a scale of one to 10? That was a 10. Really? Why do you think that is? So suddenly start talking about their past, they start talking about how they were raised they were they start talking about things that they didn't even know themselves? why most people really want to go deeper in the conversation. Number one, they are suffering alone on the inside. Most people are suffering on the inside. And they've got no place to go. No one gives them an excuse to talk about their suffering. You can't just start a conversation. Hey, I'm really hurting. I'd like to talk about it. No one does that. So someone has to draw it out. But they want to give it they want to talk about it. Everyone wants Adam and Eve, wantss what Adam and Eve had in the garden before sin entered the world. What was that? Adam and Eve were naked and they felt no shame. Okay we all have this shame. We're all covered up. We we hide who we really are. I don't want you to know who I really am cause if you did you might not like me. So I have to project a nice image and hair just certain way and the way I talk and what I do in I have this image to maintain. But that's a lot of work. It'd be really cool if someone would just accept me just the way I am so we have this desire to get back to what Adam and Eve had. But where are we? We're in chapter three of Genesis, and chapter three of Genesis, the man and woman have to hide from each other, we have to sew fig leaves. We have to cover ourselves, I don't want you to see me. You know, I don't see you and when God comes around what happens they hide in the bushes. That's what sin does. But we have an inner deep desire to be free of that. And every person you meet, they're hiding. They're covered up, they're hiding in the bushes, they're hiding behind the fig leaves they want to come out into the sun. So you can help them everyone wants to come out of the bushes. How to Have Fun in your conversations. Henry and I Henry the president of Christian leaders Institute wherever we had drive long distances, we would do this kind of thing. Just for fun, not for anything else. We try to figure out inventions we would pick you know a room in the house you know, okay, the kitchen. What can we invent? And we go through all the silverware, utensils, plates, you know, maybe there's a better system, the washable table, you know, we don't even have plates, forget plates. So we don't have to wash them. We don't have to clean them. But after put them away, we just eat off the table. And when tables done some washing thing comes in cleans it all away. Crazy thing that doesn't work and then we go on invent something somewhere else. Just for fun. It is fun. Your your mind is solving a problem. It's you're employing creativity. You're laughing about the stupid ideas
that you come up with brainstorming, brainstorming about anything, whether it's a problem, whether it's real, whether it's pretend whatever it is brainstorming the The ability to just try to figure out a solving a thing, and you say almost anything, and it's the things that don't work, it's the crazy things that you come up with,
that aren't going to work at all that you laugh and have a good time with. Teasing one another, okay? Having friends that you can, you know, you know, you can say, you know, you get off on the wrong side of the bed, or what happened your face, or you call that a haircut, or, you know, little things that you can say, with a good friend, just poking each other, especially guys, you know, guys, we like to do this, I like to be around people that don't take themselves so seriously that you can't say these things. It's almost a game. You poke me, I poke you, you poke me, I poke you a little harder, you poke me a little harder, and we have fun with it. Find the humor in difficult circumstances, I have a good friend, his father just died. But while his father is dying, he had such a sense of humor about it, his father, at the end, couldn't go to the bathroom. And he you know, he's yelling and screaming about this. And, you know, part of it was just as sad as can be. And part of it was as funny as can be. We talked about how, you know, a few years this will be him. And I maybe will be in adjoining rooms, you know, dying together. And we can compare notes. I mean, that humor in the face of difficulties, it was a bonding thing. It's a way of going through tough times. And you can if you can do that with people, you have people that you can safely have fun, use humor in difficult circumstances. It just makes for, again, what's the goal of conversation to build a relationship dream of possibilities. I love doing that. I have, I have built so many incredibly successful companies. In my own head, you can't imagine if, in fact, I almost you know, a did it all in my head, the planning everything, how it went, it went really good. All these things. And, you know, when I'm done dreaming, and I don't even want to do it anymore, because I've already done it. But it's so much fun. And if you have someone that you can do that with, to dream of things. changing the world, becoming the president of the United States, why not? I could do that. What I have to do to seek it all through. Yeah, I could do this. Dream, play games, whatever. What if you were to graduate from Christian leaders Institute? What if you were to go off and plant your own church? What if you started an Enterprise Program and you started a successful business that allowed you to have free time to plant your own church? Wow, if you do both of those things, and have a great wife and a family what if what if you met the right person? What if why not see these are good conversations to have with people in conversations that are no fun are the ones that go the negative direction? Oh, I can't do this. Oh, this is what's bad. A lot of people get together and all they do is complain, complain about everything under the sun, instead of positively thinking about what is possible What if what can be people will ultimately want to hang around with people who are positive people that that lift their spirits up. So why not try to be that kind of person? I
don't know what you are right now. But why not try to do this go over this? This whole message again? Write some of the things down what are you going to work on this week? What what are you going to try the opinion questions? Write down a bunch of opinion questions and they just go out and ask them Henry and I asked this for 20 years. What is your spiritual dream? person after person after person try that. You know what? Why do you think most people don't go to church? Why are a lot wire of couples not getting married? Ask opinion questions this week. Let's see what happens. See what kind of great conversations you end up with. Alright, thanks for listening and we'll see you again.