Hi, I'm Henry Reyenga. With me is Steve Elzinga and we continue our discussion on influencing  wrecking habits. In our lead off the discussion on the word reproducible. You know, we talked  about a person who doesn't walk with God is not as influential as a person who does walk with God. And one of the things we talked about in the Getting Started classes, seven connections, is a reproducible walk with God. So what about a walk with God and reproducible have anything to do with influence? 

Well, I guess, in some ways, reproducing is influence. I mean, if you if I have an influence over someone, I'm  reproducing something in me, whether it's my belief, or my walk, or some skill, or a sport that I'm trying to teach, I have this thing, and I'm reproducing it in you. So when we talk  about a walk with God, a lot of times, we know that can be a broad general thing, but we like to narrow it down into the habits that make it happen. So talking, listening repeatedly to God, prayer, Bible reading. And, you know, knowing God, and walking with God, and getting close to God is a lifelong activity, and I can't teach a person in one day, all the counsel of God and everything that God is, because I have a whole lifetime, and you have a  whole lifetime to do that. But what I can reproduce in you, is the simple skills in making that happen. And if you stay on the path of talking to God, and listening to him walking with every day, all the great things of God come to you. The power, direction and the gifts, everything the Bible talks about. So a lot of times influence you have two things going when you're trying to influence someone – is the broad thing, I want you to be a better person, a kingdom person, a God driven person, that's a huge thing. But if I can just help you do a few skills, then those skills will take you on the road to that. So when we talk about our walk with God, it says thing  us thing. But a lot of times we like, you know, when I meet with a person, I just make it simple? Well, what's the work of God was just talking listening. I'll show you how to do that, it takes five minutes. I show you how to do this in five minutes, and then go ahead and do it.  And then next week, I talk to you about it. Well, I think that's a lot of times when we're coaching people. That's why coaching is about getting people to some form of action. Little Frank, can you do this next week that will help push the ball towards what you want. So a lot of times influence is just a small little thing that you get someone to do, rather than this huge thing that they have to now understand and buy into.

 

I like to just that little phrase really reproducing is influence at the most prime level, well. Let's keep moving on. So being snobbish, Proverbs 14, verse 31, he who oppresses the poor shows contempt for the maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God, Proverbs 19, verse 17, he who is kind of the poor and lends to the Lord, and He will reward him for what he has done,

 

Okay for people, Henry and that are in countries where English is a second language, what snobbish mean?

 

Snobbish is a preoccupation with like a higher class, a more wealthy class of society, or a preoccupation with a certain people group that they're part of. And if you're not part of my people group, it might be tribal, it might be racial, there's ways in which like my team, for whatever reason is better. But your team is poor in comparison to my team. So everyone has a lot of implications  

 

Looking down on the other because of whatever reason.

 

Like in India, they have different classes, some classes here and the next classes there. But in Christ, we are all one in Christ.

 

For sports, you get the people that are really good at something and then the ones who are beginners, the ones who are better look down on the ones who don't let them play with them.

 

And even just have a verses say. If you have more than someone else, and you look down on someone who has less than you, and there's a lot of implications for that, I mean entire philosophies are written you know, Karl Marx wrote about communism, because he felt like the poor were getting not a fair shake, and the rich have even had different terms bourgeoisie and all these other stuff and, and again, we are not communist here. And as I was saying the topic has been around for a long time, it becomes politicized. It becomes, you know, ingrained in churches, even the book of James do not have favoritism. You don't have to the one person sit here and then the other person sit there. So that hurts our influence. I remember one of our mentors who helped start Christian Leaders Institute Rich DeVos. We've been told the story before, but we will go to like the sky box, the United of the magic, the Orlando Magic basketball team. Here, a billionaire is getting to know the elevator worker with deep care, find out about and here is one of the most influential people I have ever known Rich DeVos. And he takes even though he himself is very wealthy man, that he has deep concern for everyone no matter who they are.

 

So how does make us in some ways if I'm, let's say, I am the mentor, I'm the  guy who wants to have influence over somebody. So I am kind of higher than them, because I know stuff. When does me trying to be your mentor turned into snobbishness? What are the certain things I can do to make it make it so that I don't look like I think I'm better than you. Because in this particular thing, and I'm mentoring in you, I am. So if I'm helping someone learn a sport, and they're new, and I've been at it a long time, I am better than you. Well, how do I come off, not snobbish, as I'm trying to help you become better into me

 

To me it's like diakanos to whom Jesus said, if you're going to be great, you have to have the attitude of the servant and really say, look, I truly am  thinking the best of you. So first of all, how you really are in your heart and back to your  walk with God and how you really care about the other person. And I think if you don't care, it comes through, and you think you're better than them. It comes through if you're impatient,  because all my valuable time of being a mentor has been wasted by this person who’s just not learning fast enough. I think that comes through.

 

I think, you know, I know like within the sport, where you're trying to help someone that doesn't know as much as you, they know you're way better than me. But if I, you know, if I communicate to them that the game is not very new to me, the game is comparing to you right now and you an hour late, when you've learned a few things. And wow. And you see how much you improve in this last hour. I see how you went from you couldn't do this. And now you can. I see great potential in you. You see then it doesn't matter whether I'm five times as good as they are, is that the fact that I'm really good and me complimenting you, just, I encourage you all the more. So you may  be a different level than someone but it's how you communicate them. If you're constantly saying, Yeah, you're a long ways from being as good as I am. Or, you know,  in a couple of years, maybe you know, where you're discouraging them, you're making that distance all the time. I'm way better than you and your keep saying that. If you're way better than someone else's at something, you shouldn't have to keep saying it.

 

No. Well, it goes back to being the deacon being the servant. In the end, I think people see it. They know it. In fact, this is one of the maybe the most intangible things that you can point to and say there's Rich DeVos on the elevator, there's us teaching, there's us ministering. And I remember one minister at a conference 20 years ago. Somebody asked them, you know, so how do you like ministry? And the person said, without even thinking, I'd like it except for all the people in my congregation. And really, that person left the ministry.

 

My uncle or my great uncle, my grandma's brother, I never met him. He died the month I was born, but he was a PhD philosophy teacher at Calvin College.

 

You come from a long line of very influential people.

 

Yes. So my uncle is dead now. But he and he wrote a few books. And when my grandmother was older, because he never married. My grandmother got all his notes, his chapel notes. So I have a stack of all his chapel notes and some of the personal things that like his diary.  And I remember one of the diary entries was when he was going to school. And he had a high view of himself and kind of a low view of of students. He would say another day at school, another day of mediocrity. That’s how he saw the students. Mediocrity rather than another day to help precious minds that want to learn, reach their full potential, that would have been another way.

 

And again, some tangible people who have influence, you know, they don't have to say that they're beautiful, they are beautiful. They don't have to say that in yet, we're still talking about the principles of this is not a way for me it's these, the shell, that points back to the walk with God, who are you really? And this is another example of a snobbish person, does it come off, where they need more of the liberation of a walk with Jesus Christ, and that scene, everybody has an image bearer, but that can't be faked. Somehow, it's all real. Poor listening skills.

 

Sorry, what did you say?

 

Poor listening skills Proverbs 18, verse 13, he who answers before listening, in other words is impatient that we talked about earlier, that is his folly and his shame,

 

I like these two words is just not a good way to go. It's gonna hurt you. But it's also wrong, not treating people right. So poor listening skills. So how would you positively say that if a person was to have influence what do they need to do?

 

Be inquisitive, in their listening? You know, I also did the people smart class, and they have a large section about people smart ministry about listening. I felt, which helped me in that class  was, you can go two ways. One is you can be like, I know what this person is going to say. And I already know what this person's going to say. And I've got to quickly respond and say  something, or I don't want to listen anymore. Because I know what this person is going to say. I thought, a technique that really made me take that next step in humility and love was to have my mind like, listen for the surprise, listen to things that is said, that's unexpected. And then pack that away, as you know, how I can serve and how I can help that person, as opposed to I know what they're saying, I gotta get in and advice. I don't want to listen to any more those types of attitudes.

 

Listening, you know, I think, answers before listening is folly, and it's folly to start talking to  someone and giving solutions to things that you don't even know what they want. I mean, I always church people. I don't think they ever catch on. When someone asked me a question, someone, I think someone here at our conference, the other day, he came to me,  he had questions about the Didache. Now. Do you think the Didache was in this and this long, involved question about the Didache. So he was done asking the question. I said this is a really good question. What do you think? And he had a lot to say, then he said I have one more questions than he had some more complicated question that I know he had a lot of stuff behind. And I said, Wow, that's a deep question. What do you think? He didn't catch on that and he knows he came, he had all this stuff he needed to say, and I could have started talking. I don't know who this guy is. I don't know why he's asking this question. I don't know what nuance he's coming from. And I could just start targeting... He had a bunch of stuff he needed to say before I could say a thing. And once he's talked, and I've listened, and now he feels good about me, because I listened. Now I even know what I can even say something about.

 

And you learnt a lot about the Didache.

 

Yes I did if you ask a few inquisitive questions? Like, it is so rare to find someone that's interested in what you have to say, interested in your life. And so if you are that person, that's taking an interest in somebody, it unlocks all kinds of things. You know, one thing I you know, when I first got to know you, and you would take me to the grocery store, and you're trying to help me do evangelism, or how do you get new people to join your church? Let's go to the grocery store. So you go to the grocery store, and find somebody, what’s that in your sweatshirt, I’ve a sweatshirt too, you know, you just start talking. And what I found amazing was how within two minutes we’re into their marriage problems or some disaster or the doctor just told them that they might have cancer or whatever in two minutes from zero to 60 in two minutes, and You know, we  would unpack that later and talk about why is that we talked about how, really everyone wants to be naked before the Lord and before others like Adam and Eve were. But sin we're covered up, and we're hiding, and, and no one understands us and no one listens. And so just a little bit of listening. All of a sudden you give them freedom to discover and admit and see where they're at. And now you can make an influence in their life.

 

In some ways, those  passage, he who answered for listening, that is a folly and his shame. And you bring up the Adam and Eve that relationally naked, their shame. And really, the shame is an aspect of this, it's letting them share and letting them be who they are before God and be interested that they’re image bearer of God, and you have that regard for them

 

I think most people aren't what they could be not because they lack some information. But because they lack the sense that they're okay that people see their potential or that they even have any potential. So it's really getting them to believe in themselves more than a bunch of skills or correcting things. And so by just listening, you're validating their life and who they are, and that there's somebody and that people care. That there's something good there's some gold there?

 

On evangelism I've done both. I've just shared the gospel. And I've done the other way, where we start  talking, and we, but more importantly, we listen, we have a conversation, and I listen. And I'm telling you, it's way more powerful if you have the attitude of listening. Next one, defeated attitude when things go poorly. So proverbs 18, verse 14, a man spirit’s sustains him in sickness, but a crushed spirit who can bear? Very interesting passage.  Proverbs 31, verse 25, talking about the Proverbs 31 woman, she is clothed with strength and dignity, she can laugh at the days to come. So why is sort of a gloomy person? Or if maybe put it with something goes poorly - the naysayer, I knew this wasn't gonna work. Yeah, we tried that before it just doesn't work. Why is that so influence killer.

 

In some ways, you can lead with kind of a positive thing. Or you can a lot of leaders try to lead by the victim mentality. I'm trying to influence you to do stuff by playing the victim. I can't find anybody to help clean the church or paint the church? I’m out there all by myself. Now I can guilt people into doing this. But they don't feel good about doing it. It's not fun. I pushed them, I shoved them, I made them feel guilty. That's why they're there. No, it's a hard to find someone who's like, always down and looking at the negatives, and but someone who's positive, hey, we get to change the world tomorrow by decorating our church. Because you know, one person, you know might have a view of God just might make them feel at home, I don't know that. There's a winning way why we want to do this. And you can you get to be a part of it if you'd like. You know, I called you because I thought you'd be really good at this. Change the world. We're gonna paint to change the world. That's right. This is God's house. And you know, how we treat God as our example to the world. And you get to do that tomorrow. You know, that's positive, or when negative things happen. And, you know, I went through a divorce and the you know, and, you  know, we're talking about marriage, and all I do is talk about how horrible marriage is. You  know, why would I come to you for influence? All you're doing is telling me your defeat? If you're telling me what you did, you know, I was my wife walked out?  But I'll tell you, my church, just, I mean, being a part of a group and my support team and my  friends they came in they you've told the stories about what happened in your life through that negative thing, theres a positive guy, I want to hang around a guy like that. That guy knows how to go through hard things. And I can relate to him. I go through these things, too.  

 

I'd rather be around someone who feels forward. Yes, than is constantly failing backwards.

 

Rather than someone who's always negative and nothing works out, you know, relationships never really work out.

 

You have to be so careful because dreams don't hold for too much. You know, it's really interesting, this concept of dealing with failure in respect to your walk with God. As we walk with God, we realize that, you know, sinners like us access the grace that Christ has given, and that I'm being transformed, he who began a good work in me is carrying it to completion. So even my failures are all part of a story, a beautiful story. And I want to be around people who share that story. And is powerfully influential.

 

In a company, again to that because that just over the last whatever years or so I've seen this so much, that when a  leader leaves by being a victim, like they're always talking about,

 

I barely have time to get this done.

 

But yeah, it's so draining. And people respond to if you're, if you're the victim card,  people will come around and help you. If you're a pastor, and you're using the victim card all  the time, there's a whole bunch of people that will respond and help you with, but you're  defining the relationship, you're not the leader. You're the victim. They're the leaders. So there's a lot of pastors out there who are not leaders in their church. They're the victim, and everyone there is bailing them out all the time.

 

You know, my car is broken.

 

You know, I'm not getting paid enough, you know. And then when you try to take them up the hill to do something, they don't follow you, because you're not the leader.

 

Powerful stuff. Acting carelessly with your reputation. A good name is more desirable to great riches, it’s said in proverbs 22 verse one. To be esteemed is better than silver or gold. Why is the reputation so important in being influential?

 

Well, what is the reputation, Henry? How would you define it?

 

You know, the question I did this course, in sociology that somebody should take, and part of that course was, what goes into a reputation. And a reputation is something that's a long term. In other words, you don't get a reputation in one day. You get reputation over periods of time. And it's an impression that the community or someone thinks about you, that they've observed or that others have observed. So it's sort of a sense, reputation is a form of sort of, it's a foundational influence. So if you're a person that has broken relationships, you're a person who is abusive, or we're going to talk one in the future about a criminal record, it doesn't hurt reputation. So there is something about our reputation that has to be cared about.

 

So yeah, so you can't become an influencer, just by a couple of techniques. Or by doing a little few sessions with somebody. The whole of your life sort of sets you up as an influencer or not. Because if you have a poor reputation, why would I follow you? So this has more to do with your whole life. And that's why I like a walk with God is like, so important. It's not like, listen, trying to help somebody become a better parent. Okay, but if I have a lousy walk with God, and I'm trying to teach you how to be a better parent, why would they follow me? You're not even doing the basics with God. How do you know anything about parenting? So it's all one thing after another, or you know, and I need someone that's in the business world, and I know that their family life is disaster, and they're telling, you know, giving principles on how you create a team, in business. I don't like little skeptical, because how come this didn't work in your own family? There's brokenness there. So you know, the whole of who you are, is your influence, ultimately. So your reputation is just a good indication of what people think of you. Now, not just because your reputation, you know, a bunch of people think a lot of things of you. It  might be they're getting a false view of you, and then you have some correcting  to do and that's where some coaching might be, in order. How do you repair some of this reputation? Because you came off as brash, and you came off as something that you didn't mean to? That's really not who you are. But there's some subtle things that you need to do that will help you have a better reputation. Right now people have the wrong idea about you. So it's not like your reputation is always accurate.

 

Well, and there's anything that I've observed there There's some people who are manipulative about their reputation. And they're so concerned about the reputation that it is phony baloney, but to most of the world that looks really good. And then others who haven't really paid attention to it and erected really, they're walking with God. They're really great people and nothing's ever perfect in life. They're sincere people. But for whatever reason, people think of them poorly when they actually are great.

 

Because of a couple of little things. A couple of things tend to do.

 

Yes. That hurts them. Very interesting. Being a “get even” person, Proverbs 24, verse 29. Do not say, I'll do to him as he has done to me, that's very much. I'll pay that man back for what he has done. I am getting in people, and they're very hard to be around. It's almost like, it seems so transparent. I don't know how much we have to talk about it.

 

Well, I think it's, it's easy to fall into this and call it justice.

 

Oh, I see. It's in a marriage, you see that?

 

I don't think anyone says I'm gonna get even with you, Henry. Okay. You treat me poorly. And I don't say, you know, I'm gonna get even with you. I am going to be for the good of you, Henry treat you poorly. You want to tell me the truth about you?  Well, let me tell you the truth about you. You say you're saying this to correct to fix me and help me. Fine, I will fix you too. I'll help you. How do you feel about that kind of thing? Yeah. And I think it's sometimes we do it. You know, we think that's gonna stop them. Like, you know,  you do this, I do this. And now you'll learn how you like to be treated this way.  Alright, and stop treating me that way.

 

But in one upsmanship

 

You don't want to walk away  going, Wow, I must see you poorly. I'm going to learn a lesson. That’s not what happens. You feel unfair. This is unfair for you, and then you retaliate. So people keep doing that back and forth. Husbands and wives. This is a classic. They keep pretending you retell it, you do this, I do that you do this, I do that. You ignore me and go and do your own thing. I ignore you and do your own thing. You yell at me, I yell at you. Sometimes I think even this past week I had with my wife. She was telling me about some things that I did wrong. I think I was telling her something that would annoyed me. And she just turned around and found something very similar about me that annoyed her. And it's like, Well, which one do you want to talk about? I was talking about this. You didn’t admit it. You didn't say anything about it. You just threw it at me. And now here we go back and forth. Well, who's going to influence anybody that way? It just becomes a tennis match or a sporting match that we both want to score. And no one wants to really solve this problem.

 

As a church level, you can see that with it's a form of the Be victim thinking again.

 

It appeals to our competitive nature. You do this I want to get you back.  

 

Enough said, phony, flattering. Proverbs 27 Verse 14, if a man loudly blesses his neighbor early in the morning, it will be taken as a curse. Proverbs 29 Verse five, whoever flatters his neighbor  is spreading a net for his feet.

 

The meaning there's not a safety net that will ensnare you and catch  you. In other words, it'll come back to you.

 

His own feet. Yeah. Like you're the one that will be snared. Yes. Why do you think that is Steve? That’s an interesting metaphor.

 

You picked up the verse, why did you pick it up? Back to the life coach? Well, I figured  out because flattery is like it's a form that can be coming off as encouragement.  But when it's phony baloney what really does is that it hurt you? Well, the person that you're like given an flattery to doesn't trust, you care about them. They think the flattery is a form of your manipulation, what you want out of it.

 

In some ways flattery is the opposite. I am not flattering you I am trying to manipulate you. I'm trying to get something from rather than giving you some was true encouragement is just given this job with that speech the other night. Not good job with that speech because I want something from you.

 

There are some people who just struggle with this, I think at times in my life when I was learning how to be encourager, or sometimes my encouragement did go to flattery, because I saw how much encouragement made a difference. So I wanted to be encouraging. Even the people who I couldn't say much encouraging about. So instead of listening to who they really were in finding that which I could encourage, I just had like my, my 10 things that I didn't want. I don't want to be around someone who is like, not teachable, like deflect them away by flattery. My goal, on one level is this person's gonna teach by, I got to do something. So then, you know, I fell, I think in as I look back in a circumspect and honest way, I fell into flattery, more than really paying attention to who some of these people are. And again, this is 40 years of ministry. And truth be told, I mean, I have always been a work in progress, even in those days and it's frustrating.

 

It's a fine line between flattery and encouragement. Because I, you know, I struggle with giving encouragement, and therefore I don't really struggle with giving flattery.  Because those two kind of go together, So for those of you that are encouraging, I guess it's when am I encouraging you for your sake? Or am I encouraging you for my sake for what I want to walk with? The flattery thing when I'm doing it for me and not for you.

 

Caring too much about what others say about you. Ecclesiastes, by the way, this is a not proverbs one. But in this whole series, this could be not a Proverbs slide. But the Ecclesiastes verse was so good. Do not pay attention to every word people say, or they may hear your serving, cursing you for you know, in your heart that many times you yourself have cursed others.

 

Do not pay attention to every word people say.

 

I’ve noticed that people with diminishing influence, their self esteem everything is often going which way the wind blows. And if things are, if people are talking good on Facebook about them, they feel better. If it's not, or they'll almost over need compliments. You know, of meaning they come off needy, and they come off needy, because they really want to be affirmed. Crisis do not affirm them. So then there might be you know, so then the someone's identity is found in their fans and if fans are great about you, but you feel better and but in the end is, that's fool's goal in influence.

 

I think people if I if I'm always setting my course, my vision, by what I think other people think of me I don't really have the vision. My vision is dependent on what everyone around these thinking and saying. So I don't have a strong vision. And why would anyone want to follow me? I have no vision, I'm not going anywhere. It's the first thing you want to follow is someone who holds on to a vision  regardless of what other people are saying. I don't care what people are saying, this is the direction I think we should go. If you're just listening to what everyone else has to say, then why am I following a leader has we're going this way. I'm confident about going this way. 20 reasons why we should go there. I can tell you the benefits of why it would be good for you to go this way. Now let's go this way. But if you're like, Well, I don't know what does everyone think about which way we're gonna go? Now, that's a good point. Everything's a good point. And one minute they're going this way.

 

Well, in what starts happening is they say one thing to one group thing to another group.

 

Or whatever their itching ears want to hear.

 

And I think to be a disruptive leader too where we're disrupting our world for Christ. It means to hold to that relationship and that voice of God in your heart. Now again when you say that I  don't even called to be a leader, don't go. But there is that line where you say, Why am I here? What is my purpose, is to please Christ not men.

 

I think of the tiller and Lightfoot, number nine, or if it was, the titanic story, the ship has gone down to 700 people underwater crying for help. And all these lifeboats were half full and one of them, the guy holding the tiller said, alright, we go back, and we rescue people out of the water. And then everyone on the boat said, no, no, we can’t do that. If we go back, they'll swamp the boat, and then we'll all die. So then this guy who's the light, he's the designated leader. He stood up and he said, All right. I want everyone to remember, if we get rescued, I want everyone to remember that I wanted to go back.  All right. Now what he says is he was worried about what they would say what they would do. He should have stood up and said, I'm the designated leader. This is a lifeboat and we're going back. If you don't like it, you can get out. Because this is what we do.  See, people will follow that. They're not going to follow, you know, let's all vote and decide which way we're going to go. I'm not following a guy like that. He doesn't know where he's going. So why should I follow him? How could he have influenced he doesn't even know what to  do with his own life.

 

Well, a lot here. When you sign up for this class. But we're not even halfway done. With the influencing wrecking habits. These habits take away and the Bible  reveals how we as Christians, followers of Christ can do these things. So we're going to continue on with more in our next session.

 

 

 

 



Last modified: Tuesday, February 25, 2025, 11:39 AM